Appeal for Bucknor

[Malleeboy]

Leaving aside the whether Harbajhan trial was fair, at least he got one and was allowed to mount a defence and have people speak on his behalf. He has the BCCI clearly advocating and looking out for his interest in the halls of power in world cricket. He is also getting an appeal and gets to continue to play whilst pending the appeal.

Bucknor got no trial, no defense, and no one clear advocate. Worst of all he has no right of appeal. Dishonoured and reviled with no recourse whatsoever. How do we know if there might not have been extenuating circumstances that may have lead to his poor performance?

Should umpires have the right to an independent review and at least some sort of appeal process?

 

[Richard]

If he'd been dismissed and had some sort of contract terminated or ban imposed, he should and would.

But he hasn't. He's just been removed from standing in 1 single Test, and I'd imagine he's far happier at escaping from the glare than he would be staying in it.

 

[LongHopCassidy]

But he hasn't. He's just been removed from standing in 1 single Test, and I'd imagine he's far happier at escaping from the glare than he would be staying in it.

Would you be, if you were the first ump in the history of Test cricket to be removed in that nature?

 

[Malleeboy]

You mean after being told by his employer that he would stand and that they would stand behind him. Only to have a third party publicly attack and revile him and see himself dumped.

Do umpires get paid per match that they stand in? If so then he has been denied income.

Otherwise he still has been publicly defamed by a certain body and worse still treated appaulling by his employer.

 

[Richard]

Would you be, if you were the first ump in the history of Test cricket to be removed in that nature?

Do you really think he is? It's well-known that certain boards have objected to certain Umpires being scheduled to stand in certain matches. Sometimes the boards have acceded to the requests, sometimes they haven't.

 

[TheLad]

Forgetting the behavior of the teams at the SCG Bucknor's performance was not just poor it was diabolical.

While I don’t like the idea of teams jumping up and down to get an umpire removed for form it is time the ICC made some reforms to make changes to the panel and matches a lot more flexible.

 

[Richard]

Do umpires get paid per match that they stand in? If so then he has been denied income.

Centrally I think, but not sure.

Otherwise he still has been publicly defamed by a certain body and worse still treated appaulling by his employer.

One could argue that his own Umpiring has damaged his reputation far more than either of these, though. That's the trouble.

 

[Slow Love™]

Forgetting the behavior of the teams at the SCG Bucknor's performance was not just poor it was diabolical.

While I don’t like the idea of teams jumping up and down to get an umpire removed for form it is time the ICC made some reforms to make changes to the panel and matches a lot more flexible.

Agreed.

 

[steds]

The way Bucknor has been treated is nothing short of disgraceful, and I think everyone involved in making the decision to remove him is pathetic. That said, I fail to see what good an appeal would do. He can't exactly deny making the mistakes in the first place, can he? And none of the powers that be would go "on second thoughts, maybe we were a bit harsh. Sorry old chap, take your place back. But try not to give Dravid out this time."

 

[silentstriker]

I've no problem with Bucknor appealing his removal. That's his right. Teams have that right, so should umpires. If I was Bucknor, I'd be pretty pissed right now. As a cricket fan, I can say he should have been removed or it was going to be an insane atmosphere at Perth, but as an umpire, I'd certainly not be happy in the slightest.

 

[Engle]

Lets face it, no one is immune from being removed for incompetence

 

[silentstriker]

Lets face it, no one is immune from being removed for incompetence

Agreed, and he should have been. But there has to be a recourse for the umpires.

 

[Richard]

I've no problem with Bucknor appealing his removal. That's his right. Teams have that right, so should umpires. If I was Bucknor, I'd be pretty pissed right now. As a cricket fan, I can say he should have been removed or it was going to be an insane atmosphere at Perth, but as an umpire, I'd certainly not be happy in the slightest.

Would Bucknor not recognise that it'd be hell - not least for him should he make any more mistakes - at Perth? And prefer to be away from it all?

 

[silentstriker]

Would Bucknor not recognise that it'd be hell - not least for him should he make any more mistakes - at Perth? And prefer to be away from it all?

That's his choice though. As it is, ICC didn't give him a choice.

 

[Richard]

My point is, do you think he'll actually be terribly disappointed that they didn't.

I know you would, but do you really think Bucknor is?

I'd be relieved, myself - at least, I think I would be, none of us can really know what we'd feel like because no-one can ever really imagine what it must be like to be subjected to what he has been the last week-and-a-bit.

 

[silentstriker]

My point is, do you think he'll actually be terribly disappointed that they didn't.

I know you would, but do you really think Bucknor is?

I'd be relieved, myself - at least, I think I would be, none of us can really know what we'd feel like because no-one can ever really imagine what it must be like to be subjected to what he has been the last week-and-a-bit.

Again, this is irrelevent. Umpires should have recourse. Whether a specific umpire would choose to use it in this specific instance is irrelevent.

 

[Mister Wright]

It happens in the NRL if a referee has a bad match they get stood down, same should happen for an international cricket umpire. I love the bloke, had a quick conversation with him at the WC and he's the nicest bloke, but his performance was poor. If it makes him a better umpire in his remaining years it can only be a good thing. International umpires deserve a kick up the bum occasionally. But, yes I think he should have the write to appeal, but then the ICC are his employers, so they have a say over what he does.

 

[Richard]

Again, this is irrelevent. Umpires should have recourse. Whether a specific umpire would choose to use it in this specific instance is irrelevent.

Whether they should or not was not really what I commented on. I was merely replying to your comment asking what Bucknor might be feeling now.

I made my point about the original idea in my first post in this thread.

 

[Engle]

What's the point of an ump having recourse when he has lost the confidence of one of the participants ?
He cannot force his way in, he has to earn it

 

[Slow Love™]

Again, this is irrelevent. Umpires should have recourse. Whether a specific umpire would choose to use it in this specific instance is irrelevent.

I don't know how you formalize a situation that's outside the bounds of formality, though. As far as I know, an umpire hasn't been immediately stood down after a poor performance before, so this is a new precedent (and yes, that's a problem in of itself). Bucknor's option of grievance would most likely be in the courts (which is where Darrell Hair obviously took it), unless he could resolve something with the ICC in the absence of any formal system of appeal.

If there had been a formal system in place whereby it was known that an umpire could be immediately removed from a scheduled appearance following a poor performance, I guess you might build in a process where the umpire could contest this, but you'd think that were that to be the case, the umpire's only real grounds would be that the performance wasn't actually poor - which probably wouldn't help Bucknor's case (and that his performance was poor appears to be beyond dispute, from either "side" of the debate). Clearly though it hasn't really been considered previously, you would assume, as there doesn't appear to be any manner of recourse in place.

Again though it's worth raising that there are sporting codes where umpires are treated in a similar way to the players, in that if they are seen to have performed badly, they are dropped, and that's just an aspect of the occupation. I don't know that any of them have an organized appeals process for a dropped ump, and it seems to me that it could be very messy if they did.