***Official*** India in Australia

[silentstriker]

absolutely agree

i expected better from wasim

It's surprising how many players have said that in the last couple days: Gavaskar, Tony Grieg, Wasim, Kapil Dev, etc.

 

[honestbharani]

Being graceful really isn't that hard anyway.

why does Ponting find it so difficult then?

 

[honestbharani]

Tbf, Tendulkar didn't deny the comment, he just said that he thought that what he heard was 'harmless'.

I think its unfair to blame the Australian team for the umpires being so poor.

when Sachin says it was harmless, it is quite probable that there were no racist comments thrown around..... If anything offensive WAS said, I think Sachin would have reacted differently. He, for sure, would know what is offensive to Aussies and what isn't, haven't been around for so long and having played so much international cricket...

 

[honestbharani]

"And yes, you DON'T shake hands of people who are supposed to be neutral and who haven't been..."



"And yes, Australia didn't play to the spirit of the game, claiming so many bump ball catches and all, for starters....."



You're welcome to believe whoever you like, but I strongly disagree with your suggestion that someone like Gilchrist has "a record of playing with no integrity". At the absolute worst he's about the same as every other player in the world, and in reality I'd say, whether you think he's hypocritical or sanctimonious or not, he's still a cut above most. I don't think that someone who walked at a crucial stage in a World Cup semi-final can be said to have "a record of playing with no integrity". Obviously that, unlike the cheating accusations, is just a matter of opinion though.

Well, I took the literal meaning of the word "cheat" there... TBH, anyways, I do think the umps were biased in this particular match, for whatever reason... They definitely seemed to go the Aussie way in close decisions too many times for my liking. I think there are enough grounds to doubt the integrity of the two umpires and if ppl don't see it, it says a lot about them, IMO...


And secondly, yes, Australia have a poor track record when it comes to sportsmanship and playing according to the good old "gentleman" spirit of the game... Teams have been worse than them, sure, but this Aussie team are not angels and have to be among the top 3 or 4 in terms of gamesmanship and poor sportsmanship. I have seen enough to understand that...... That is not the same as claiming them as "total cheats"... I only talked about their track record in the issue of sportsmanship. How did "cheat" get into it, I will never know......


And NO, I never said Gilchrist and Ponting played with more integrity. But I do think I would rather believe Tendulkar and Kumble than Gilchrist and Ponting. I mean, can you honestly tell me that Gilly wouldn't have known that the ball didn't hit Ponting's bat? I am a zillion times worse keeper than he is and even I would know..... I am sorry, I have seen him adopt double standards w.r.t his walking before and as I said, I think Tendulkar and Kumble have a much better track record in terms of integrity than Ponting and Gilchrist...

 

[honestbharani]

"And yes, you DON'T shake hands of people who are supposed to be neutral and who haven't been..."



"And yes, Australia didn't play to the spirit of the game, claiming so many bump ball catches and all, for starters....."



You're welcome to believe whoever you like, but I strongly disagree with your suggestion that someone like Gilchrist has "a record of playing with no integrity". At the absolute worst he's about the same as every other player in the world, and in reality I'd say, whether you think he's hypocritical or sanctimonious or not, he's still a cut above most. I don't think that someone who walked at a crucial stage in a World Cup semi-final can be said to have "a record of playing with no integrity". Obviously that, unlike the cheating accusations, is just a matter of opinion though.

I think, for starters, Brian Lara has a much better track record, and so do a couple of others... I have seen him NOT walk for nicks in important games around 2000 and 2001 and so I always felt his "showing off" abt walking all of a sudden was a little too gimmicky for my liking... As u said, he is perhaps just as bad or good as other players but that only shows that there are no grounds to believe him more than Kumble or Tendulkar. And personally, I think Tendulkar and Kumble are much better than Gilchrist, they never acted "holier than thou"... I know Gilly says it was said in jest, but I watched it live and he was anything but in a light mood when he said it... And it wasn't exactly sly either... I thought it was remarkably stupid, for a sledge, and it is not exactly going to go into my top zillion sledges in the world list... It was not at all witty or funny and neither was it sly, AFAIC...

 

[BoyBrumby]

However, I can't help but feel Australia are responsible for this. We created the culture of sledging and battlefield mentality on the cricket pitch. Some say Chappell wasn't the first, but his side did make an artform of it and the Australian sides have since turned it into a science. We created this monster and whilst the comments were unacceptable, I can't help but feel we are somewhat to blame for the environment in which such a thing took place.

David Hopps's article in today's Guardian says something along the same lines: (link)

If Harbhajan Singh is banned for three Tests because he called Andrew Symonds "a monkey" then that is how it must be. In sport, as in life, racism must be challenged at every opportunity.

Admittedly, "monkey" would not qualify in the top hundred racist insults. Ian Botham used to revel in the nickname "Guy The Gorilla". When all is said and done, we are all simian primates. But the word "monkey" had form, as everybody knew that Symonds had supposedly suffered such insults last year from Indian crowds. So case proven, the Indian spinner was guilty as charged. The Indian board should stop its posturing, accept what must be a galling reminder that it is the International Cricket Council that still runs the game, and get on with the tour.

Do not delude yourself, though, that in punishing Harbhajan cricket is punishing a sinner. It is punishing a victim. It is punishing a player who, it might be concluded, mentally disintegrated. Remember mental disintegration? It is Australia's nauseatingly self-congratulatory phrase for sledging. And it worked. It worked so well that Harbhajan cracked and Australia have not stopped bleating about their shoddy little victory ever since.

 

[honestbharani]

They weren't neutral? You honestly think that the two "elite" ICC umpires went out onto the field beforehand and said, "yeah, let's go out of our way to completely f-over the Indians so Australia win." Really?

There is a massive, MASSIVE difference between bad performance and corruption. If an umpire is corrupt, then by all means don't shake his hand. If he just had a bad (even horrendous, if you don't think that "bad" is strong enough) game, then to not shake his hand is poor form.

I think there was more than enough grounds to suspect their "neutrality"..


Again, I think "cheat" is too strong a word. I think they were far more ready to give the benefit of the doubt to the Aussies more than the Indians... Maybe it is just plain incompetence and maybe there was just a bit of bias, maybe even irrational bias... I don't know and honestly, I don't care... It was obvious that they ruined the game for the Indians and to me, it is perfectly understandable, if not totally justifiable, why Kumble didn't shake the hand of the umpire... And yes, whether the mods like it or not, after a match like this, there is bound to be questions reg. the umpire's integrity. The Indian team and the board are doing pretty much the same, asking Bucknor to be kept out and having won that particular battle... Don't see why anyone would expect followers to take any other view of the matter, really..... If you see horrendous decisions given against only one side, just like that match with Javed Akhtar, you are bound to have questions reg. the umpires' integrity.....


Maybe I did jump the gun reg. the umpires were biased comment, but I still think there is enough room for suspicion there... But in adherence to the practiced norm, I am more than willing to accept that they are innocent till proven guilty. Doesn't hide the fact that they were massively incompetent and cost India the game... Enough reasons not to shake the hands of such officials, for me...

 

[honestbharani]

india still should of saved that match, they have to take some of the blame

definitely...


One should not miss the point that our batting in the second dig, aside from DRavid, Ganguly and Kumble was real poor. Dhoni didn't look anything comforting either, in his stay... Our batting was woeful, to say the least and tbh, I thought Australia bowled well too, esp. to the weak links of our batting, and unfortunately we had too many of them this time....

 

[honestbharani]

12 balls to survive with 3 wickets in hand and facing part-timers (and that's being very generous to Clarke)

Seems to me like India handed the game to Australia

As for Harby - repeat offender = zero credibility

Ponting - repeat whinger = zer0 crediblity too...

 

[honestbharani]

Sachin said he didnt hear anything (not surprising from 22 yards away) - totally different scenario

He was standing right next to Harbhajan.... Did u even see the footage?????

 

[sideshowtim]

Ponting - repeat whinger = zer0 crediblity too...

Lol. It's been the Indians doing all the whinging after this match mate, not Ponting.

 

[Fusion]

I’ve deliberately avoided this site for a couple of days following the end of the Test as I figured the fall-out would be unbearable and that mass hysteria and over reaction would at least equal if not strongly overpower reasoned comment and debate. Having read through as much as I could of this thread – though I haven’t had anywhere near enough time to read it all – it’s safe to say that I wasn’t to be disappointed...

Great post Sean (I've taken out the rest because it was quite long). Much respect.

 

[honestbharani]

9 or 10 "???
I guarantee he has given more than 9 or 10 poor decisions against Australians in his career.

Find me one Test umpire that has not be bagged by the Indian press and they can umpire all India's tests.
I will save you the time, they don;t exist.

try searching Simon Taufel or Darryl Harper or Rudi Koertzen or Aleem Dar in the Indian papers (the respected ones, not the bloody tabloids)... While people always complain about bad decisions, they aren't always blamed of bias.. But with Bucknor and to an extent, with Bowden, it is not the case.


There is no smoke without fire.....

 

[honestbharani]

its because india didnt lose to england, thats what this is really all about

the ref had a word with both teams that time and we all saw how toned down everyone were in the last test....

 

[honestbharani]

Until his report is out, it can't be ruled out that Symonds was a clearer, more credible witness than Bhajji, hence Proctor's decision.

I am sorry mate, there is no way in hell that Symonds is a better witness than Harbhajan... They are both tools, but there is no way one is better than the other and if that is what Procter believes, there is nothing wrong in India asking him to be replaced...

 

[silentstriker]

Haha HB singlehandledly reviving the controversy

 

[honestbharani]

How convenient for you.

It is in the newspapers too, if u need further confirmation....



But u seem to have made up your mind that u r not going to listen to the truth....

 

[honestbharani]

I agree that the umpires cost india the game, but what can you do about it? its part of the game i can uderstand the indiasn being upset with that but i still ahve 2 problems

firstly the way india are quick to point the finger at australia for playing outside the spirate of the game, yet they have defended harbijan when he made a racist comment

secondly, india should except the icc decission , iff they start leaving tours when they dont like a decission whats stoping other sides doing this? its very dangerous what they are doing

for starters, it is NOT YET a given that Harbhajan said anything racist....

 

[duffer]

Lol. It's been the Indians doing all the whinging after this match mate, not Ponting.

Lollerskatez! Not like any Australian hasn't whinged about those corrupt Indians picking and choosing whoever they want to umpire their matches and using their financial clout to get what they want. FFS, did you hear Malcom Conn on Fox a few hours ago?

Whingeing hasn't been a one way street in this saga.

 

[kanga_kid]

yes they can!!