***Official*** India in Australia

[funnygirl]

jeevan,

India are attempting to get umpires banned/removed because they are unhappy with them. That is the link to the Hair situation. Pakistan unhappy with Hair so they threaten match/series.. India unhappy with Bucknor, so they threaten to end series. Why do India think this action will work, surely because the Hair incidents shows that the ICC is gormless, so it is worth a try. Bucknor is the senior umpire in the ICC umpire list, he deserves to be repsected not snipped at because he had a bad game. Unless the ICC publicly back the umpires, players will show more and more disrespect.

If a player can be dropped based on some poor performances ,so are umpires .Why he didn't refer a close stumping to the 3rd umpire ?

 

[Johnners]

Getting back to cricket:

There were a number of players who I thought failed badly and their spot in the team is in danger:

India:
Jaffer - a lot of hype about him but failed times now, is he worth persisting? Maybe given the series is dead but Sehwag would be interesting & may handle Perth better.
Dravid - still fighting leave him alone & he will find form
Yuvraj - Again a lot of hype but must be dropped! His fielding was poor when he is supposed to be the best fielder, showed nothing with bat.
Sharma - thought he was OK still raw though worth a try at Perth
Dhoni - time to give Karthik a go & see what hes got

I would like to see Pathan fit in somewhere - not sure why he has not been sighted as I rate him - get rid of Yuvraj for him.

Australia
Hogg - batted fantastic but just not dangerous enough with the ball. Bring Tait in to replace (yes i am biased)
Johnson - I just do not see him being dangerous enough. He has had very little effect. Although he brings variety he needs to make the batsmen play more. Perth wicket will save him & will stay in but if they choose to keep Hogg replace him with Tait
Clarke - don't shoot me for this but he batted terribly and should be put on notice. Both dismissals were awful. His bowling saved the game for us and for him, but if he bats like that again I will be screaming bring back Hodgy or maybe David Hussey.

No way should Dhoni cast aside, his keeping has generally been excellent barring 1 or 2 mistakes. Whilst he hasn't yet exploded with the bat, he put in a very good fighting effort in the 2nd innings in Sydney when so called recognised batsmen such as Jaffer & Yuvraj had absolute howlers.

As for putting Clarke on notice..wtf? Thats basically been his only poor game with the bat in hand since he was reinstated to the test team, dropping him after 1 or 2 poor test matches for Hodge or Hussey would be one of the worst selections decisions in the history of cricket (well, maybe a slight exaggeration, but you get the point).

 

[taitmachine]

No way should Dhoni cast aside, his keeping has generally been excellent barring 1 or 2 mistakes. Whilst he hasn't yet exploded with the bat, he put in a very good fighting effort in the 2nd innings in Sydney when so called recognised batsmen such as Jaffer & Yuvraj had absolute howlers.

As for putting Clarke on notice..wtf? Thats basically been his only poor game with the bat in hand since he was reinstated to the test team, dropping him after 1 or 2 poor test matches for Hodge or Hussey would be one of the worst selections decisions in the history of cricket (well, maybe a slight exaggeration, but you get the point).

If he produces dismissals like those again at vital times in innings then he should be reviewed. Its not like he got out to good balls, he got himself out at a time when he needed to produce. He seems to get runs when pressure isn't on. You find out more about players value to the side when the pressure is on. Axing him is an over reaction but lets just say it raised a few eyebrows.

 

[taitmachine]

No way should Dhoni cast aside, his keeping has generally been excellent barring 1 or 2 mistakes. Whilst he hasn't yet exploded with the bat, he put in a very good fighting effort in the 2nd innings in Sydney when so called recognised batsmen such as Jaffer & Yuvraj had absolute howlers.

As for putting Clarke on notice..wtf? Thats basically been his only poor game with the bat in hand since he was reinstated to the test team, dropping him after 1 or 2 poor test matches for Hodge or Hussey would be one of the worst selections decisions in the history of cricket (well, maybe a slight exaggeration, but you get the point).

By the way I think you will find Hodge was dropped after a couple of average games.

 

[Malleeboy]

If a player can be dropped based on some poor performances ,so are umpires .Why he didn't refer a close stumping to the 3rd umpire ?

I have no problems if the ICC (or the umpire panel) reviews a performance and an umpire is dropped, demoted or rested. However for a team or its management to call for this publicly is disrepcting the umpire and intimidating the administrators (as well as being a tad of a dummy spit.) and should result in immediate discipline to stop this continuing to happen. Umpires must make calls without fear or favour, public calls puts inappropriate pressure on umpires. The review process should be neutral and disinterested and not based on partisanship or bias from any outside influence.

What was the punishment for the fiasco at the end of the ODI World Cup? This was umpires treating Australia appauling and just plain not knowing the rules.

 

[Burgey]

Pfffft. Try that with someone else,mate. Care to talk about land ownership rights and reparation rights for families who's kids were kidnapped by the government ?
Recently a state in your country passed a litigation making it illegal for aborigines to buy alcohol coz they are alcoholics ( way to go with non-racism, yeah ?). Thank heavens it hasn't turned into a law yet but given that this is Australia we are talking about, its just a matter of time.



Yeah. Point out to me which other country puts refugees in jails for being refugees ? Detention-center is just your media's politically correct word for jails.



yeah, the child is forced apart from their parents and parents are tossed in jail. How bloody fairly treated.



Except in Australia, there are clear legal precedents keeping the aboriginals in a depressed economic state. Your nation has been cited by even the UN for being one of the most crass nations in human rights. Nuff said, really.



It may be much better by Aussie standards, but that doesn't say much, given how your nation is literally scraping the barrel in this regard.

The treatment by Australia of its indigenous people is a blight on its history and its present, whilst its treatment of asylum seekers in recent times is no better. The aboriginal issue is as complex as it is vexing. the solutions to the problems in those communities have been nigh impossible to solve. Nevertheless, as a country we must keep trying. It's well and good to lash out at this country but efforts have been made to try and help. They may be inadequate, they may be half-hearted in some cases, but they have been made. Were the problem easily solved, it would have been solved by now.
The refugee issue in recent times has disturbed many people in this country, and was used as a political tool over the past few years. The recent treatment of refugees frotm eh miuddle east in particular can be contrasted with the treatment to Vietnamese refugees in the 70s and 80s when Australia took pre capita more than nearly any other Western country. The identity of the respective prime ministers at those times may give some indication as to why the approaches were so different.

Exactly, there is no proof ! And verdict was based on testimonials from 3 Australian players ! *disbelief

"Monkey" is not racist [ for me as an Indian]. Who decides that calling ones mother whore* is not worse than a racial remark ? Again, it depends on different cultures, different history, ...

For an Indian "racial abuse" is acceptable than hearing words like "bastard". While for an Australian "bastard" may be more acceptable than being called "Money" or " Kangaroo" or whatever.

Off all teams in Cricket , its team Australia who is complaining about "sledging" *what a joke.

Symonds, like Ponting is a crybaby. In Sydney, Symonds started arguing and Harbhajan gave him a word or two. Take it like a man, or find another job!

Symonds should stop crying like a small baby. Just cannot wait for him to play in India cuz "Monkey" is now what he will be called. Indian crowds must have already picked a name for Ponting too, thats if he still continues playing Cricket !
Wondering what Ponting would be called? Let me know and I will pass it on to millions.

Well, the problem with your argument is that we've heard so much about being sensitive to the cultural/ religious/ racial aspects of countries in world cricket. Ont his very foru I have read posters who lambasted Allan Border for not giving Kapil Dev a drink of water when Kapil was upset after hitting and killing a sea gull in Australia years ago. Now, AB's expected to defer to Kapil's cultural sensitivities in that case, yet it's ok to call a black player of WI extraction a monkey? The real problem here is that Harbhajan knew the term was offensive after October last year and what went on then. I also read somewhere in the past few days that Harbhajan apologised on the field for some comment he made. Is that the case? If it is, what comment was it that he saw fit to apologise for if not a racist slur?

No hard evidence ? You think quoting any damn article from the internet is hard evidence ?
And no, you have not presented ANY evidence on why Zimbabwe is worse than Australia.
You have not presented any comparative study on human rights treatment in Zimbabwe and Australia- you've only put in the Zimbabwe angle.

One doesn't have to present comparative studies on human rights abuses to draw a difference between Zimbabwe and Australia.

haha sheeeeeeesh

I have 3 things to say:

1.Roebuck is a Knob, we all know Ponting is no saint, but his apparent poor conduct in this match has been so overblown it's ridiculous, much like everything else thats happened in this match.2. SST please be quiet for the sake of the rest of us Australian fans
3. Play some ****ing cricket and stop squabbling you bunch of overpaid namby pambies

Roebuck's double standards know no bounds. He ses for certain teams standards of conduct which he does not of others. Could one ever imagine him writing "Darren Lehman is a hot head at times, but he mentors young players and carries a lot of responsibilities in his household" as he did re Harbhajan? Of course not. Calling for Ponting's sacking in this case is ridiculous. Frankly, I've seen a lot worse conduct from the Australian team in recent years than was on display in Sydney this week (not to say that excuses it).

To be honest, Lee does have a cute tush.

Quite.

While Roebuck's latest article is a bit over the top, he is not alone in condemnation of Ponting and the overall attitude of some Australian players. The Australian media is full of articles in that vein. In fact I find more 'sensible' articles in the Aussie media from respectable writers than in the Indian press where their is a lot of rhetoric which always dilutes the arguments as Roebuck has unfortunately done in this last one.

The Australian media contains articels both for and agaisnt their team. I cannot speak re the Indian media. But again I ask, if a white Australian player made that remark to an Indian player, would not that player be well within their rights to complain about it? i would have thought so.

Getting back to cricket:

There were a number of players who I thought failed badly and their spot in the team is in danger:

India:
Jaffer - a lot of hype about him but failed times now, is he worth persisting? Maybe given the series is dead but Sehwag would be interesting & may handle Perth better.
Dravid - still fighting leave him alone & he will find form
Yuvraj - Again a lot of hype but must be dropped! His fielding was poor when he is supposed to be the best fielder, showed nothing with bat.
Sharma - thought he was OK still raw though worth a try at Perth
Dhoni - time to give Karthik a go & see what hes got

I would like to see Pathan fit in somewhere - not sure why he has not been sighted as I rate him - get rid of Yuvraj for him.

Australia
Hogg - batted fantastic but just not dangerous enough with the ball. Bring Tait in to replace (yes i am biased)
Johnson - I just do not see him being dangerous enough. He has had very little effect. Although he brings variety he needs to make the batsmen play more. Perth wicket will save him & will stay in but if they choose to keep Hogg replace him with Tait
Clarke - don't shoot me for this but he batted terribly and should be put on notice. Both dismissals were awful. His bowling saved the game for us and for him, but if he bats like that again I will be screaming bring back Hodgy or maybe David Hussey.

Surely Karthik for Jaffer, Sehwag for Yuvraj, Dravid to 3 and Laxman to 6. Irrespective of the ban, will Harbhajan playh in Perth? All this talk of him getting Ponting out is right, but how many wickets has he taken? Surely they'll bring Pathan in for him in Perth. Given the stance re suspending the tour, are India (if it goes ahead) now making a rod for their backs in having to pick Singh in Perth when, on pure cricket grounds, they may wish to leave him out? God, how will it look if he's cleared then they do not play him?

Hogg shouldn't play in Perth imo. Bring in Tait. Clarke might be under some pressure, but too soon to drop him imo.

I also think Johnson has suffered from bowling to a pretty set plan early on to just push the ball across the right handers with the new ball. He must, however, begin to bring the ball back in if he wants to be there long term.

 

[funnygirl]

I have no problems if the ICC (or the umpire panel) reviews a performance and an umpire is dropped, demoted or rested. However for a team or its management to call for this publicly is disrepcting the umpire and intimidating the administrators (as well as being a tad of a dummy spit.) and should result in immediate discipline to stop this continuing to happen. Umpires must make calls without fear or favour, public calls puts inappropriate pressure on umpires. The review process should be neutral and disinterested and not based on partisanship or bias from any outside influence.

What was the punishment for the fiasco at the end of the ODI World Cup? This was umpires treating Australia appauling and just plain not knowing the rules.

U mean BCCI have no right to question umpires ? I don't know about that rules,i some one could clarify that ?

Tour is in a crisis because of a one sided judgement .Not because of umpiring .

 

[Johnners]

So you're quickly going to forget his century in Adelaide last ashes when we were still well behind Englands 1st innings total? He came in then at an important time in the innings, and performed well under pressure. Also take note of the pressure he would've been under in his debut series over in India where he was clearly our 2nd best batsmen after Martyn. Add to that the number of times he's had to play pressure innings for the ODI time, and has done so without much fuss (different form of the game I know, but when talking about performing under pressure, it shouldn't matter) and I think you'll find MJ Clarke is more than adequate at scoring runs in pressure situations. He had 1 poor match with the bat (incidentally, that was his first duck in Test Cricket) and there is absolutely no way he should be anywhere near being put on notice at this point in time.

EDIT: In reply to Taitmachine btw

 

[taitmachine]

Surely Karthik for Jaffer, Sehwag for Yuvraj, Dravid to 3 and Laxman to 6. Irrespective of the ban, will Harbhajan playh in Perth? All this talk of him getting Ponting out is right, but how many wickets has he taken? Surely they'll bring Pathan in for him in Perth. Given the stance re suspending the tour, are India (if it goes ahead) now making a rod for their backs in having to pick Singh in Perth when, on pure cricket grounds, they may wish to leave him out? God, how will it look if he's cleared then they do not play him?

Hogg shouldn't play in Perth imo. Bring in Tait. Clarke might be under some pressure, but too soon to drop him imo.

I also think Johnson has suffered from bowling to a pretty set plan early on to just push the ball across the right handers with the new ball. He must, however, begin to bring the ball back in if he wants to be there long term.

Laxman needs to stay up the order either 3 or 4, gives him time to settle in & do some damage. I am not sure how well Karthik went opening last series I think he failed - opened & was keeper.

 

[Johnners]

Karthik can't do any worse than Jaffer or Yuvraj atm, and he won't have the added pressure of having to keep meaning he can concentrate solely on his batting.

 

[Raghav]

Karthik can't do any worse than Jaffer or Yuvraj atm, and he won't have the added pressure of having to keep meaning he can concentrate solely on his batting.

Yuvraj will be dropped for the next test I suppose.

 

[Malleeboy]

U mean BCCI have no right to question umpires ? I don't know about that rules,i some one could clarify that ?

Tour is in a crisis because of a one sided judgement .Not because of umpiring .

BCCI or any other body involved directly in the playing of cricket should not publicly call for any actions on umpires. I don't know the rules precisely either, it is a personal opinion. I cannot see how umpires can feel free from intimadation if boards or any other external body (with real power in cricket) publicly calls for there removal. Surely you want umpires to act in a fair way and without thought to any external influence. Are you seriously suggesting that they should ponder what the BCCI or any other board may think of their decision before making it? That is why we have gone to neutral umpires from an elite panel, as their was too much suspicion in the past that local umpires may have been at times swayed by parocialism or other outside influences.

India has complained about the umpiring and the Habarjhan decision, however the match referee is part of the game officiating officers along with the umpires. The same protections from outside influences should be afforded him as the umpires.

(From my quick reading of the ICC regs, it appears that either of the boards in a match can report a umpire, but it doesn't mention publicly shaming them. By all means write a report but IMHO do it without publicity, publicity which the only real effect of IMHO is to attempt to put public pressure on the umpires to effect their decisions.)

 

[funnygirl]

BCCI or any other body should not publicly call for any actions on umpires. I don't know the rules precisely either, it is a personal opinion. I cannot see how umpires can feel free from intimadation if boards or any other external body publicly calls for there removal. Surely you want umpires to act in a fair way and without thought to any external influence. Are you seriously suggesting that they should ponder what the BCCI or any other board may think of their decision before making it? That is why we have gone to neutral umpires from an elite panel, as their was too much suspicion in the past that local umpires may have been at times swayed by parocialism or other influences outside influences.

India has complained about the umpiring and the Habarjhan decision, however the match referee is part of the game officiating officers along with the umpires. The same protections from outside influences should be afforded him as the umpires.(From my quick reading of the ICC regs, it appears that either of the boards in a match can report a umpire, but it doesn't mention publicly shaming them.)

Out side influence ? What is the proof he has to offer about that abuse ?And 3 tests ? For Lehmann just 5 ODIs ? Is that fair ? we need a balance for every thing ,don't we ?

 

[Top_Cat]

Out side influence ? What is the proof he has to offer about that abuse ?And 3 tests ? For Lehmann just 5 ODIs ? Is that fair ? we need a balance for every thing ,don't we ?

Slight difference was that Boof handed himself up to the opposition for his racial epithet, apologised and plead guilty so would have received a discount. If things were equal (i.e. he denied it), I'm sure the penalty would have been much greater.

 

[Johnners]

Out side influence ? What is the proof he has to offer about that abuse ?And 3 tests ? For Lehmann just 5 ODIs ? Is that fair ? we need a balance for every thing ,don't we ?

I think the fact that Lehman made a public apology had some bearing on the length of his ban. I'd imagine the same would apply to HB Singh.

 

[Random Hero]

It was reported in the Courier Mail here today that Hayden could be out for possibly up to 5 weeks with both knee and back complaints. I'm not to worried though, he always gets up in time.

Though he could miss because he's been sacked for crossing himself according to Roebuck.

 

[NJANJA]

Out side influence ? What is the proof he has to offer about that abuse ?And 3 tests ? For Lehmann just 5 ODIs ? Is that fair ? we need a balance for every thing ,don't we ?

Here is the difference between Lehmann and Singh in a nutshell: Lehmann made full apologies, verbally and in writing, immediately following his disgraceful racist outburst. Furthermore, I give you Lehmann's words after getting banned for 5 ODIs:

"I would like to place on record the fact that I had a fair hearing"

"I accept the penalty handed down and would like to say once again how regretful I am that the incident took place."

"I meant no offence by my comments and again would like to apologise for making them.

"I would also like to thank the Sri Lankan team for their support and understanding in this matter."

Darren Lehmann is a long way ahead of Singh in the character department, I can tell you.

EDIT: you beat me to it, TopCat!

 

[howardj]

The diplomatic, genteel corporate face of Australian cricket:

http://content-aus.cricinfo.com/baggygreen/content/image/329447.html

 

[silentstriker]

Here is the difference between Lehmann and Singh in a nutshell: Lehmann made full apologies, verbally and in writing, immediately following his disgraceful racist outburst. Furthermore, I give you Lehmann's words after getting banned for 5 ODIs:

"I would like to place on record the fact that I had a fair hearing"

"I accept the penalty handed down and would like to say once again how regretful I am that the incident took place."

"I meant no offence by my comments and again would like to apologise for making them.

"I would also like to thank the Sri Lankan team for their support and understanding in this matter."

Darren Lehmann is a long way ahead of Singh in the character department, I can tell you.

EDIT: you beat me to it, TopCat!

Slight difference was that Boof handed himself up to the opposition for his racial epithet, apologised and plead guilty so would have received a discount. If things were equal (i.e. he denied it), I'm sure the penalty would have been much greater.

Except it is possible Harbhajan might not have said it......

 

[NJANJA]

Except it is possible Harbhajan might not have said it......

Possible, but highly improbably in view of the evidence against him. The independent and neutral umpire has spoken on this one.

NJANJA