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***Official*** India in Australia

It didn't really take me very long to find accounts regarding how African students are treated in parts of India, or accounts from people of African/West Indian descent, who described being socially ostracised and "monkey" taunts. So I'm a bit puzzled by it all, TBH.
It is called communcation gap/culture-gap. 'Monkey' most definitely IS an inflammatory remark in India (and most of Asia for that matter) but the connotation it carries revolves around the very nature of the monkeys - loud/obnoxious/pratt/a$$holes etc. It doesn't carry a racial connotation at all with it.
It is also common in Indian culture (regardless of what 'race' you are from) to call you a monkey if you look like one ( based on facial features, ie, deep eye sockets + raised cheekbones + puffy upper-lip, sloping head, etc). Doesn't take much for a black person to take it totally out of context/draw the wrong conclusion given what the connotation is in their society.
 

Slow Love™

International Captain
They're certainly not being friendly by using the taunt but the connotations are nowhere near as sinister as they are if someone used it in an Anglo to African exchange. Definitely racist though

Socially ostracizing of minorities is not limited to India either.
Certainly didn't mean to imply it was, mate. :)

I just find all the claims that it's not used as a racial taunt fairly unconvincing. Also, the fact that the word is used in other contexts (including the affectionate) doesn't preclude it either, as some have claimed. I might call my son a little monkey at times too, but it doesn't mean I have no grasp of how the term can be used in other, much less innocent ways.
 

Nate

You'll Never Walk Alone
:laugh:

Deadset funniest post in this thread. Not that it's been too hard, but golden all the same.
 

Slow Love™

International Captain
It is called communcation gap/culture-gap. 'Monkey' most definitely IS an inflammatory remark in India (and most of Asia for that matter) but the connotation it carries revolves around the very nature of the monkeys - loud/obnoxious/pratt/a$$holes etc. It doesn't carry a racial connotation at all with it.
It is also common in Indian culture (regardless of what 'race' you are from) to call you a monkey if you look like one ( based on facial features, ie, deep eye sockets + raised cheekbones + puffy upper-lip, sloping head, etc). Doesn't take much for a black person to take it totally out of context/draw the wrong conclusion given what the connotation is in their society.
Yeah, but in my searching I also came across accounts written by people from India who conceded that it was an issue in some places in their country. This is why I suspect it's a class/political divide among those making the claim that it's not used that way. Depending on who you spoke to in Australia, for instance, you could find people who swear that a generation (or varying amount) of Aboriginal children were removed from their parents on the back of a policy of genetic dilution, and those that would swear it never happened. Who gets to represent the "Australian Truth" in this instance?

Of course, this is aside from the oft-mentioned fact that the Indian players knew damn well how the word was perceived by the time this tour started.
 

thirdumpire

School Boy/Girl Captain
Use logic mate. Why would the Aussies make up a charge of racism? ...... It seems the Indians are doing anything to get out of this charge and it's ridiculous. I just see absolutely no reason why the Australians would make up a fake charge against Harby...[/QUOTE]

the aussie skipper's last 4 test innings .....

RT Ponting b Khan 4
RT Ponting c Dravid b Harbhajan Singh 3
RT Ponting lbw b Harbhajan Singh 55
RT Ponting c Laxman b Harbhajan Singh 1
 

Bracken

U19 Debutant
:laugh:

Deadset funniest post in this thread. Not that it's been too hard, but golden all the same.
Heh. I'm a huge Kevin Smith nut. The wife and I own all of the Askewniverse DVDs, as well as both Evenings with Kevin Smith and Jersey Girl. All get a regular screening in the Bracken house.
 

Evermind

International Debutant
Not sure I've seen it this bad against the Australian team before though mate. Being serious here. Some of the flagrant lies, bullcrap and spin doctoring I've seen in the last couple of days is enough to make me sick. I'm really getting fed up with how much crap our team has been getting when we've done nothing wrong.
Nothing wrong? You must be kidding me.

Grow up, seriously. The Australian team has been responsible for onfield abuse for years now. I can't believe people are either denying it, or are perfectly ok with it. It's really the warped attitude of fans such as yourself who refuse to objectively look at the rot within the team's behaviour that's causing some of the silly debates on this forum.

It's pent up anger of decades coming up, sparked by an almost perfunctory incident. Indians are people who have an exceptionally strong regard for and sense of history, and there is no doubt that it's a matter of double standards, pride, and cultural considerations of decades. What they're outraged about is not that Ponting has reported this fact, but that after nearly half a century of copping racist abuse from Australians and being told to "keep it on the field", they're being shown the book of the law. No one is seriously defending racism here - what's flabbergasting is the double standard.

Madan Lal, Gavaskar, Wasim, Kapil are all talking about it now...hell, even Tony Greig has talked about Aussie sledging in the recent past. If you choose to bury your head in the sand and keep convincing yourself that the team's full of persecuted saints, that's your prerogative, buddy. But you're not going to convince anyone.
 
Yeah, but in my searching I also came across accounts written by people from India who conceded that it was an issue in some places in their country. This is why I suspect it's a class/political divide among those making the claim that it's not used that way.
Yes, it is an issue in some parts but it is very isolated, exception-case scenario, primarily found around a FEW people in FEW metropolitan cities where western sensibilities in these matters prevails.You see, racism is still a relatively new concept in Indian culture- there is actually no concept of race/racism in Indian culture or history before the arrival of the British.
So it does have its presence,albeit in a very very limited sense.
 

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
Yes, it is an issue in some parts but it is very isolated, exception-case scenario, primarily found around a FEW people in FEW metropolitan cities where western sensibilities in these matters prevails.You see, racism is still a relatively new concept in Indian culture- there is actually no concept of race/racism in Indian culture or history before the arrival of the British.
So it does have its presence,albeit in a very very limited sense.
Casteism is racism under a different name, and there has been a long history of discrimination against darker skinned Indians. Light skin has always been preferred for hundreds of years, when it comes to marriage, jobs, etc.
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member

What's funny to me is how Gavaskar and Grieg seem to be accusing Aussies of double-standards by not keeping 'what happened at the ground, staying on the ground'.

Michael Slater, or Mark Taylor, should have just responded, "Yes, that's true and for the most part it is, but there is a line you don't cross and racism is one".

Grieg talked about it as if he was talking about school-mates dobbing in each other.
 

Evermind

International Debutant
What's funny to me is how Gavaskar and Grieg seem to be accusing Aussies of double-standards by not keeping 'what happened at the ground, staying on the ground'.

Michael Slater, or Mark Taylor, should have just responded, "Yes, that's true and for the most part it is, but there is a line you don't cross and racism is one".
Getting pretty tired of the Australian fans dodging the point/being unable to understand it.

1) Racial abuse is bad.

2) Personal abuse is also bad.

3) Australians indulge in the latter, but are adamant that it should stay on the field, and should/must not be reported.

4) Australians have also indulged in the former in the past, and have also said then: "keep it on the field".

5) They now want to punish racist abuse, but mention nothing of other types of abuse that they freely and unabashedly indulge in.

It's almost completely straightforward logic TBH. Racism is worse, yes, but no one has been able to explain how and why other kinds of abuse is totally acceptable. If Harbhajan has received a 3 match ban for this, McGrath, given his less severe abuse towards Sarwan, should've gotten a 1-match ban. Instead, he was sympathised with. Ludicrous. Hell, we don't even have to go that far back.

The sequence of events is this: Harbhajan hit Lee's butt, then Symonds "let him know what he felt about it" (20$ on there being homophobic remarks, BTW). Surely that included inflammatory words. It stands to reason that Symonds should be reprimanded as well - if we're talking in terms of bans, how about an ODI or two? Yet, there's nothing - of course, cause that's just how "the Australians play their game - fair and hard".

The Aussie team did nothing wrong with reporting Harbhajan, IMO. But it's a discontinuity in the status quo, and it's a policy that should've been adopted years ago. They're now being held accountable for something they've been doing for decades, and it's not going to sit lightly with people who've been at the receiving end for all those years.
 
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Turbinator

Cricketer Of The Year
Haha I find it funny how the whole world is against the Aussies now, when more attention should be placed on the horrible umpiring. Watch both teams come with a something extra at Perth. It's gonna' get heated that's for sure.

And ughh! Bucknor to continue 8-) .
 

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