Gilchrist, walking, appealing and sportsmanship

[howardj]

I suspect Gilchrist had a pretty good idea Dravid hadn't touched the ball,

With respect, I think it's living in la la land to think that Gilchrist didn't know what happened - or hasn't ever appealed when he knows it's not out. Why on earth do people think cricketers are pure? Appealing doesn't make Gilly a monster or the worst bloke on the planet, but it does make him a bad sport. It's a low act to appeal when you know it's not out, as distinct from when you think it may be given out. Although he's easily my favourite Australian player, I have never understood why people are so in awe of Gilchrist for walking, when he (like many other cricketers - he's not the lone ranger by any means) appeals when he knows it's not out.

but can you really crucify a bloke for asking a question? He'd taken the ball cleanly so was entitled to ask the question.
.

Sorry, but just because you've taken a ball cleanly does not make you entitled to ask the question.

 

[burr]

Watch a replay of the catch Ponting appealed for when fielding at bat-pad today, when the ball hit the ground in his hand (making it not a catch, even if it had been hit.) He looked like he was about to throw a tantrum.

This is annoying me – not this post in particular but I’ve seen this a lot all over the board – suggesting Ponting’s a cheat for this incident. In the India/Aus thread at the time did anyone realise the ball had touched the ground – did anyone raise the suggestion it was not a catch. No, it didn’t cross anyone’s mind – just like I’m sure it didn’t cross Ponting’s. Did cricinfo realise it wasn’t a catch, no:

36.5​

Hogg to Dhoni, no run, huge shouts as Ponting scrambles back from silly mid-off to take a diving catch in front of him, a great effort
He thought it came off the glove...standing by for replays


The catch seemed fine, it was only the issue of whether the ball flicked the glove. And then channel 9 show that replay overs later and suddenly it dawns on people that it wasn’t a catch. But instead of seeing it as a minor point and being thankful Dhoni wasn’t given out everyone just manages to blow it way out of proportion and use it as another hand grenade in their petty attempts to get one-up in the pathetic who’s the biggest cheat competition.

 

[netmatrix]

This is annoying me – not this post in particular but I’ve seen this a lot all over the board – suggesting Ponting’s a cheat for this incident. In the India/Aus thread at the time did anyone realise the ball had touched the ground – did anyone raise the suggestion it was not a catch. No, it didn’t cross anyone’s mind – just like I’m sure it didn’t cross Ponting’s. Did cricinfo realise it wasn’t a catch, no:

36.5​

Hogg to Dhoni, no run, huge shouts as Ponting scrambles back from silly mid-off to take a diving catch in front of him, a great effort
He thought it came off the glove...standing by for replays


The catch seemed fine, it was only the issue of whether the ball flicked the glove. And then channel 9 show that replay overs later and suddenly it dawns on people that it wasn’t a catch. But instead of seeing it as a minor point and being thankful Dhoni wasn’t given out everyone just manages to blow it way out of proportion and use it as another hand grenade in their petty attempts to get one-up in the pathetic who’s the biggest cheat competition.

If you feel annoyed about it, why not start a thread expressing that, instead of cluttering up this thread? Especially, if it wasn't a post in this thread in particular that was annoying you?

 

[vic_orthdox]

Have a look at the replay and the comments of some of the other posters. You don't need incredibly slow motion replays to see that that wasn't out, especially he would've been barely a meter from the incident.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=z125uLHDlUU (at Time: 2:50)

Geez, that Brett Lee one is tight. Goes to show how difficult a rule it is to judge.

 

[NUFAN]

This is annoying me – not this post in particular but I’ve seen this a lot all over the board – suggesting Ponting’s a cheat for this incident. In the India/Aus thread at the time did anyone realise the ball had touched the ground – did anyone raise the suggestion it was not a catch. No, it didn’t cross anyone’s mind – just like I’m sure it didn’t cross Ponting’s. Did cricinfo realise it wasn’t a catch, no:

36.5​

Hogg to Dhoni, no run, huge shouts as Ponting scrambles back from silly mid-off to take a diving catch in front of him, a great effort
He thought it came off the glove...standing by for replays


The catch seemed fine, it was only the issue of whether the ball flicked the glove. And then channel 9 show that replay overs later and suddenly it dawns on people that it wasn’t a catch. But instead of seeing it as a minor point and being thankful Dhoni wasn’t given out everyone just manages to blow it way out of proportion and use it as another hand grenade in their petty attempts to get one-up in the pathetic who’s the biggest cheat competition.

I agree exactly.

 

[NUFAN]

If you feel annoyed about it, why not start a thread expressing that, instead of cluttering up this thread? Especially, if it wasn't a post in this thread in particular that was annoying you?

There is no need to start a new thread, it's related enough to the topic...

 

[Johnners]

Geez, that Brett Lee one is tight. Goes to show how difficult a rule it is to judge.

Yup, did you see the bit Ch.9 showed with Greig and I think Taylor giving a similar view as to what the umpires are looking at in regards to no-balls? After see that, I honestly don't know how the umpires are supposed to make a correct decision when it's as close as the Lee one. The sooner technology is used to call no-balls the better imo.

 

[Matt79]

Jeez some of the comments in response to that video are disgraceful - from both 'sides'.

Hadn't seen the Lee no-bowl before. It looks like it was a no-ball, and as the compere said, it wasn't as clear an error as some of the others, but taken with the others, its not good.

 

[Johnners]

Thing is with the Lee no-ball, he probs would've had him the very next ball such has been his dominance over Jaffer

 

[JBH001]

With respect, I think it's living in la la land to think that Gilchrist didn't know what happened - or hasn't ever appealed when he knows it's not out. Why on earth do people think cricketers are pure? Appealing doesn't make Gilly a monster or the worst bloke on the planet, but it does make him a bad sport. It's a low act to appeal when you know it's not out, as distinct from when you think it may be given out. Although he's easily my favourite Australian player, I have never understood why people are so in awe of Gilchrist for walking, when he (like many other cricketers - he's not the lone ranger by any means) appeals when he knows it's not out.

Because he says he does?

"There are times when you don't know. So, you ask the question. Every player has right to ask the umpire. I will say I don't appeal if I don't think they are out. If I am not sure, I will ask the umpire and I'll accept his decision."

http://content-nz.cricinfo.com/ausvind/content/current/story/329488.html

So Gilly did not know it was not a clean catch? o_0

Also, when I first saw the Ponting catch I thought it a clean one (and frankly have no problems with him claiming it). As I said elsewhere, I dont think he is a cheat.
(although I have not seen replays of the catch)

On a personal level, I dont have a problem with any sports team taking the law to the edge and bending it everywhichway they can. This is more or less inevitable in top level, and especially professional, sport. And anyone who thinks otherwise is clearly dreaming ion some fantasy land (I am one for instance who applauded Atapattu for his sportsmanship with the Symonds recall but wished he had not done it). But what I do find galling and puke inducing is the pretence of 'sportsmanship'. The sheer brazen hypocrisy of it. Call me a cynic if you will, but that seems to me to be the strength of it.

 

[Stu274]

What all these posts clearly demonstrate is that there are alot of people who watch cricket who have never played the game in their life. But their real good armchair players & umpires it seems.
Gilly & anyone else in the world is entitled to appeal for something they feel is possibly out, its not up to them to say yes or no thats what umpires are for, they dont even need to be definate or to have seen what happened to appeal they are allowed to do it simply to support the team mates around them in their appeal, it doesnt make them a cheat like some tossers here suggest. If they know it wasnt out I think most players generally react differently & it shows. Just like for alot of LBW's the keeper & first slip etc might appeal loudly but third slip cant see the angle as well but doesnt mean he doesnt have a go with his teams appeal.
Its quite possible for someone to take a catch & not fully know if it bounced etc just like its possible for a edge to hit the bat but not be felt or heard by even the batsmen holding the bat so to nit pick every little thing about every umpire decision is rediculous in my view as your only going to go grey really early.
I will tell you what bad sportmanship is, its losing a game then doing nothing but bitching & moaning about it for days to come afterwards & to even be as childish as to contemplate not playing the remainder of the series. (im taking my bat & ball & going home to mummy, cry cry)
As for Australia not playing the game in the best spirit well sorry the Indians clearly require us to racially abuse them more to keep up with their game expectations. Does anyone even realise the whole Indian team is black??? der...
As for Pontings catch it was clearly a catch from what Ive seen as he clearly has caught the ball, then while holding it in his hand has simply used the ball on the ground to support himself, doesnt mean he hasnt already caught it. The ball clearly hit the glove so Doni must be a cheat going by some of the comments around this place.

I say well done Aussies on another fantastic win & may you have 16 more in a row.

 

[Son Of Coco]

I have no problem with him asking a question. But this is the same thing as walking/not walking. I am not sure why he walks when he has edged the ball but wants to get other people out when he knows they haven't edged it? It's up to the umpires to judge, not the players. I have no problems with appeals, but I don't really think of him as a paragon of virtue either. It's a bit of back-handed move too...walking a lot and building up a reputaiton, and then appealing for clear not outs. But hey, if it helps his team, I don't mind it. Umpires should decide, not the players.

Probably because we're making assumptions as to what he does and doesn't know at the time.

 

[Son Of Coco]

This is annoying me – not this post in particular but I’ve seen this a lot all over the board – suggesting Ponting’s a cheat for this incident. In the India/Aus thread at the time did anyone realise the ball had touched the ground – did anyone raise the suggestion it was not a catch. No, it didn’t cross anyone’s mind – just like I’m sure it didn’t cross Ponting’s. Did cricinfo realise it wasn’t a catch, no:

36.5​

Hogg to Dhoni, no run, huge shouts as Ponting scrambles back from silly mid-off to take a diving catch in front of him, a great effort
He thought it came off the glove...standing by for replays


The catch seemed fine, it was only the issue of whether the ball flicked the glove. And then channel 9 show that replay overs later and suddenly it dawns on people that it wasn’t a catch. But instead of seeing it as a minor point and being thankful Dhoni wasn’t given out everyone just manages to blow it way out of proportion and use it as another hand grenade in their petty attempts to get one-up in the pathetic who’s the biggest cheat competition.

In every replay I've seen it looks like it comes off the glove...

 

[Smudge]

In every replay I've seen it looks like it comes off the glove...

EVERY replay? Most other Australians' take on it is that all bar one are inconclusive. One angle suggests it hits a finger...

 

[sideshowtim]

It flicked the glove. That's pretty much fact. We could only see that it flicked the glove through very slow motion replays though, so you can excuse the umpire for not giving it out.

 

[Son Of Coco]

EVERY replay? Most other Australians' take on it is that all bar one are inconclusive. One angle suggests it hits a finger...

Yes, every replay I've seen. I didn't say how many I've seen. It looked very much like it hit the glove. I don't think a bad decision against Australia fits into the scheme of things...I think it was out.

 

[Laurrz]

apologies if this has been posted

Talking about his appeal against Dravid, Gilchrist said: "There are times when you don't know. So, you ask the question. Every player has right to ask the umpire. I will say I don't appeal if I don't think they are out. If I am not sure, I will ask the umpire and I'll accept his decision."

 

[silentstriker]

Probably because we're making assumptions as to what he does and doesn't know at the time.

Impossible to know what goes on in his mind. I can only judge it by what I see, and I can't believe that he didn't see it clearly flick the pad.

Again, I said before, everyone does it, and he has every right to.

 

[netmatrix]

Because he says he does?

"There are times when you don't know. So, you ask the question. Every player has right to ask the umpire. I will say I don't appeal if I don't think they are out. If I am not sure, I will ask the umpire and I'll accept his decision."

http://content-nz.cricinfo.com/ausvind/content/current/story/329488.html

So Gilly did not know it was not a clean catch? o_0

Ok, I put to you this: if every single player in the world uttered those words, would you believe them? If not, why not? could it be because in the past you have seen those players act in such a way (such as appeal for something obviously not out) so as to put some doubt in your mind as to integrity of a player and the credibility of their sportsmanship?

well that doubt in my mind was confirmed by Gilchrists' actions yesterday.

To back it up with an example:
if Kumble uttered those words, would you believe him? why not? is it because you've seen him appeal for some things that obviously seem not out? (e.g the Hogg LBW shout that many have cited). and fair enough too.

Well, then, in the same vein, after seeing Gilchrists' actions yesterday, it makes it very difficult to believe his words either.

On a personal level, I dont have a problem with any sports team taking the law to the edge and bending it everywhichway they can. This is more or less inevitable in top level, and especially professional, sport. And anyone who thinks otherwise is clearly dreaming ion some fantasy land

I don't either. The rules are there for a reason. But at the same time, people shouldn't be lauding someone like Gilchrist for showing great sportsmanship either, if he acts in this manner.

 

[Rollypolly1]

Gilly & anyone else in the world is entitled to appeal for something they feel is possibly ou

Mate, if Gilly, from his angle, standing up to Symonds, doesn't see Dravid's bat hidden behind the pad and the ball brushing the pad instead, he is either blind as a bat or a total dishonest person. I think it is pretty obvious which one he is.