***Official*** India in Australia

[Evermind]

Any bets on what score Australia get to tomorrow? I'm thinking 500 or just a shade under.

This match looks like it has only one winner, unless India pull a miracle batting performance.

 

[Laurrz]

444 i reckon..well somewhere around that

minimum 400... maximum.. i reckon over 500...so dangerous times for India as these are basically bonus runs for Aus imo

 

[social]

Generally I'm of the opinion that bad decisions even themselves out but there is no doubt that Bucknor's decision may well have changed the whole series.

He and his mate Rudi should've been pensioned off years ago

 

[Laurrz]

Anyone else find it funny that amid all the clamouring here for the use of technology in umpiring decisions, a decision is referred to the third umpire that is totally inconclusive and a batsman is given not out because you couldn't tell?

This is why technology is not used more than it is. Every time it is experimented with for anything other than black and white, behind or in front of the line decisions, it is generally inconclusive and simply serves to complicate things. For LBW decisions it is impractical because many of the things used in determining an LBW decision are either abritrary (was the batsman playing a shot?) or difficult to tell on replay a lot of the time (was the ball going to hit the stumps?). That leaves pitching in line, where it may have a purpose. For catches it isn't used because camera angles make viewing the position of a ball relative to the ground very difficult, and catches low to the ground viewed on replay are very, very often inconclusive. For reference, see the hundreds of arguments on this forum about whether or not X catch by X fielder was genuine. If nothing else, that should indicate you can't use replays to determine those decisions much of the time.

That leaves run outs, where it is already used, and no ball decisions, where I would support the introduction of technology. For LBWs and catches, technology is nowhere near 100% reliable in improving the umpire's ability to make a decision, and would simply delay the game and undermine the umpires for no valid reason much of the time, especially if one assumes that technology like Hawkeye wouldn't be used because it is predictive and therefore not verifiably accurate.

terrific post, fully agreed

 

[burr]

I'm not a big one on whinging about umpires (Benson's decision for Ponting down the leg side I thought wasn't terrible) but I have to say I can't believe Bucknor is still umpiring. Since '05 he's been on the downward turn. He should retire. How on earth did he not give that out caught behind?

Again awful over rate. 89 overs with the extra half hour and over 50% overs by spinners. It's pathetic.

 

[superkingdave]

This game I can think of. I could be wrong though.

last years NY test?

 

[eglezdzdiyd]

i jsut read through the last 25 odd pages. Biggest lol around the symonds 'not outs'.

 

[burr]

terrific post, fully agreed

I agree with that too. I'm totally against referring LBWs and more. What about time, the over rates are slow enough as it is, let alone hanging around for an age waiting for snicko to officiate. On the Ponting decision today snicko finally rules about 3 overs after the moment.

 

[Jono]

I'm a shattered man tonight.

Series was set alight and ruined in the space of one hour.

 

[alternative]

Same here, with luck like this no wonder australian team is 15-0.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

In all honesty, people claiming that the Symonds decision has cost India the whole series are being a bit dramatic. The simple fact is that if you get a poor decision or drop a catch or take a wicket off a no ball or anything like that, you move on, put it behind you and create another chance. Symonds was definitely out caught behind, yes. Nevertheless, Hogg made 70+, cought have been caught early on his innings, but was otherwise relatively chanceless, and he's not exactly Ponting or Tendulkar. India have nobody to blame but themselves and their lacklustre performance with the ball and in the field once the Hogg/Symonds partnership was going for those runs. Similarly, Symonds was on what, 30 when he was given not out? He made another 100 runs. How many runs did India give up to abysmal fielding during that partnership, and how many chances might have been created with more attacking field placings when Australia were still 6/200 odd.

India let their heads drop and bowled and fielded poorly following the Symonds decision. Yes, it was an awful decision and never should have happened, but Australia still shouldn't be looking at a 400+ first innings total. A team capable of beating Australia on home soil wouldn't give it away so easily, simple as that. India were brilliant for the first half of the day and dismal in the second half. I guarantee you that when Australia get the next shocking decision (and yes, like every other team they do get them, and anyone who has watched the series so far could name a few with ease), they won't react in the same way.

 

[Evermind]

Same here, with luck like this no wonder australian team is 15-0.

Yeah, it's all 15-0 because of the umpiring faults - which, I do admit, were pretty egregious.

Never mind that the Australian team is incomparably superior to the Indian team in every single aspect. Was it also umpiring error that cause the bowlers to bowl pies in the final session, or Yuvraj to let the ball slip through his legs to the boundary? I was looking at the highlights, and every single one of the 10 boundaries Hogg hit was to a rubbish ball.

With superior bowling and fielding (and admittedly just a bit more of good luck) Hogg and Symonds should've been gone ages ago. But no, the Indian supporters will now whine about the umpiring decisions ad infinitum.

 

[Laurrz]

the fact we keep making quick runs and the scoreboard keeps ticking over really does hurt when a decision isnt given.. so yea
and also the decisions are given against the flow of play

but otherwise if ur batting at 2.5 an over if the fielding team gets a bad decision tehre is much more time to get em out again ..and the flow of play is already on the fielding team

 

[burr]

In all honesty, people claiming that the Symonds decision has cost India the whole series are being a bit dramatic. The simple fact is that if you get a poor decision or drop a catch or take a wicket off a no ball or anything like that, you move on, put it behind you and create another chance. Symonds was definitely out caught behind, yes. Nevertheless, Hogg made 70+, cought have been caught early on his innings, but was otherwise relatively chanceless, and he's not exactly Ponting or Tendulkar. India have nobody to blame but themselves and their lacklustre performance with the ball and in the field once the Hogg/Symonds partnership was going for those runs. Similarly, Symonds was on what, 30 when he was given not out? He made another 100 runs. How many runs did India give up to abysmal fielding during that partnership, and how many chances might have been created with more attacking field placings when Australia were still 6/200 odd.

India let their heads drop and bowled and fielded poorly following the Symonds decision. Yes, it was an awful decision and never should have happened, but Australia still shouldn't be looking at a 400+ first innings total. A team capable of beating Australia on home soil wouldn't give it away so easily, simple as that. India were brilliant for the first half of the day and dismal in the second half. I guarantee you that when Australia get the next shocking decision (and yes, like every other team they do get them, and anyone who has watched the series so far could name a few with ease), they won't react in the same way.

Yep, I agree. I hope India don't use the bad decisions as a way to make excuses. Their ground fielding was terrible, and again, Yuvraj was the worst offender. And the body language was also bad; late in the day Harbhajan bowled a ball, fell over and just lay there for a good few seconds, looking utterly defeated and fed up.

And anyway, I think the late order revival shows what a good pitch it is. A lot of the Australians got out from awful decisions they made - e.g Jaques and Clarke. If they can get Aus for 400 who's not to say they could get 700 like last time they were here. Okay, more than a little optimisitic but the point is they could easily match Australia's score - but to do that they need to believe and be confident.

 

[Cevno]

Yeah, it's all 15-0 because of the umpiring faults - which, I do admit, were pretty egregious.

Never mind that the Australian team is incomparably superior to the Indian team in every single aspect. Was it also umpiring error that cause the bowlers to bowl pies in the final session, or Yuvraj to let the ball slip through his legs to the boundary? I was looking at the highlights, and every single one of the 10 boundaries Hogg hit was to a rubbish ball.

With superior bowling and fielding (and admittedly just a bit more of good luck) Hogg and Symonds should've been gone ages ago. But no, the Indian supporters will now whine about the umpiring decisions ad infinitum.

Yes it was.
If the umpires had done their damn job properly then India would have benn batting by then not fielding.

Ponting was out on 15 edging and was given not out and then was given out wrongly on 55
,then symonds was out three times once caught behind ,once stumped(which a biased aussie umpire messed up),and once lbw.

I remember on last to last tour of australia bucknor giving out tendulkar ducking off a bouncer but he cannot see a clean edge today.he always favours the home side even when he comes to india for some strange reason.he should have retired by now.
But the third umpire giving not out was totally unacceptable even the australian commentators were saying out out (even ian chappel)but the third umpire decides not out.

Last time when australia came to india for a test series a Indian third umpire gave a close decision in favour of india ponting and gilchrist kicked up a ruckus why is he not complaining now?
Even in the recent odi series in india when murali karthik admitted edging the bowl and not walking in the last match ponting said he should have walked.Why does he not tell that to symonds who has admitted to edging the ball right now?
Hopefully Indian media combines this with the decisions that went against them in the last match ,specially the yuvraj and kumble ones and kicks up a ruckus about the umpires instead of criticising the indian team and Anil kumble gives them fodder by not playing mr nice guy and saying something aggressive against the umpires creating a siege mentality and putting the blame and pressure on the umpires.
But he would end up being too graceful and up saying"these things happen"rather then saying that the third umpire should be neutral and their was disgraceful umpiring like ponting.

 

[tooextracool]

now i think its good for batting.. and good for bowling (smaller ground, quick outfield, ball coming on.... but extra bounce for bowlers and some turn.. as well as constant seam movement)

There hasnt been much seam movement, theres been swing and plenty of bounce. From my knowledge the only bowler who is supposedly capable of swinging the ball in the Australian side is Mitchell Johnson (unless Clark has added a new dimension to his bowling recently).

 

[Cevno]

Yep, I agree. I hope India don't use the bad decisions as a way to make excuses. Their ground fielding was terrible, and again, Yuvraj was the worst offender. And the body language was also bad; late in the day Harbhajan bowled a ball, fell over and just lay there for a good few seconds, looking utterly defeated and fed up.

And anyway, I think the late order revival shows what a good pitch it is. A lot of the Australians got out from awful decisions they made - e.g Jaques and Clarke. If they can get Aus for 400 who's not to say they could get 700 like last time they were here. Okay, more than a little optimisitic but the point is they could easily match Australia's score - but to do that they need to believe and be confident.

I don't agree with that.
I think for once as stated in my above post Indians should not be graceful in defeat like the aren't.
If the aussies can make spinning pitches an excuse why cannot Indians make under preparation in first test and then disgraceful umpiring as an excuse.This will atleast put pressure on umpires to not be homies.

 

[Cevno]

There hasnt been much seam movement, theres been swing and plenty of bounce. From my knowledge the only bowler who is supposedly capable of swinging the ball in the Australian side is Mitchell Johnson (unless Clark has added a new dimension to his bowling recently).

Clark can get the odd one to come in like lee.

 

[Evermind]

Yes it was.
If the umpires had done their damn job properly then India would have benn batting by then not fielding.

Yes, we agree on that. But don't you think that once the decision does go against you, you should try just as hard to get back into the game and not drop your shoulders and give up on it? That's what separates Australia from the other teams.

 

[tooextracool]

Same here, with luck like this no wonder australian team is 15-0.

There is little doubt in my mind that Australia have the luck of the draw in terms of injuries, umpiring decisions and almost every other aspect of the game. Methinks if Zaheer had played today Australia would not even have made 150. Its a real pity that Zaheer isnt playing on the ground that would have suited him the most.