Stuart Clark - World's Best BOWLER

[Richard]

TBH, threads like this are probably better closed, as the minute Sri Lankans see rubbish like the opening post the result is inevitable.

 

[Manee]

Haha noooo. Otherwise they'd all do it!

AWTA. People overestimate how easy it is to bowl at 130kph, still requires quite a lot of effort, or Vaas and Pollock would be touching those speeds more often.

 

[archie mac]

On Clark, I just think it's amazing how a bloke with a pretty average FC record, nothing too special can just come onto the Test scene and own world class batsmen from his very first Test (He's got some big scalps). He's certainly an interesting case like that.

One of the commentators said something of the sort during the match against India...like he was hiding something just for Test cricket and when he was finally selected he unleashed everything.

Two reason could be submitted

1. He was chose at the peak of his powers and is bowling at his best right now

2. Aussie FC cricket is at such a high standard atm that it is easier bowling in Test cricket

 

[Pratters]

Why? Zaheer Khan hasn't been anywhere near as good as many people seem to think of late.

Zaheer since January 2007 - 33 @ 26.67

Remove that Kolkata test (which had a dire pitch) and it is 32 at 24.34.

Further, remove the test v Australia and it is 27 @ 21.91.

The test v Australia was not good statistically for him but it did show how good a bowler he has become, if any one had any doubt. People who have watched him consistently in the recent do rate him highly and fairly so.

 

[Pratters]

I rate Lee higher than Clark right now. Lee is bowling the best I have seen him bowl ever. Not only is he bowling fast, he is also bowling with a control which is brilliant to watch. Rarely have I seen any bowler bowl so fast and with so much control. Lee has to be commended highly for the massive hardwork he must have put to reach the level he has. Clark and Lee are a lethal combination together.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

I wouldn't blink an eye in picking Zaheer ahead of Vaas right now. Zaheer's a hugely improved bowler and probably the most impressive Indian seam bowler I've seen play cricket in Australia. Certianly I wouldn't be intimidated by Vaas's presence in an opposition team in the slightest, but Zaheer is a genuine concern, and I wouldn't be surprised to see him run through Australia's top order some time this summer.

 

[Pratters]

I wouldn't blink an eye in picking Zaheer ahead of Vaas right now. Zaheer's a hugely improved bowler and probably the most impressive Indian seam bowler I've seen play cricket in Australia. Certianly I wouldn't be intimidated by Vaas's presence in an opposition team in the slightest, but Zaheer is a genuine concern, and I wouldn't be surprised to see him run through Australia's top order some time this summer.

Yeah. Can't see how some one can rate Vaas ahead of Zaheer Khan right now.

 

[Richard]

I wouldn't blink an eye in picking Zaheer ahead of Vaas right now. Zaheer's a hugely improved bowler and probably the most impressive Indian seam bowler I've seen play cricket in Australia. Certianly I wouldn't be intimidated by Vaas's presence in an opposition team in the slightest, but Zaheer is a genuine concern, and I wouldn't be surprised to see him run through Australia's top order some time this summer.

There's a surprise.

Anyway, Vaas has been underestimated for more of his career than not, he'd still decimate Australia (or anyone else) easily in the right conditions and the right mood.

 

[Richard]

Zaheer since January 2007 - 33 @ 26.67

Remove that Kolkata test (which had a dire pitch) and it is 32 at 24.34.

Further, remove the test v Australia and it is 27 @ 21.91.

The test v Australia was not good statistically for him but it did show how good a bowler he has become, if any one had any doubt. People who have watched him consistently in the recent do rate him highly and fairly so.

And Vaas in the same period in games against Test-class teams: 4 games, 12 at 35.25. Remove that SSC Test (which had a dire pitch) and it is 10 at 29.99.

Further, remove the Test v Australia and it is 9 at 20.72.

People who've watched him consistently all his career do rate him highly and fairly so. People who've watched him recently with clarity also note that he's not had much go his way, least of all in his Test in Australia.

About the only thing Zaheer has over Chaminda of late is that he's played more.

Look, some people seem to think I'm saying Zaheer Khan is crap - I'm certainly not. Nor that he's not better now than he was 24 months ago. But to suggest he's now better than Vaas is not on.

 

[Migara]

There's a surprise.

Anyway, Vaas has been underestimated for more of his career than not, he'd still decimate Australia (or anyone else) easily in the right conditions and the right mood.

And he did it thrice in recent past. Once in Dawin, when he took 5/80 odd, and twice in Asgiriya with Nuwan Zoysa. First time aussues escaped with a brilliant knock from Ponting to en up at 220, four years later was shot out for 128, and Vaas being the main destroyer.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

There's a surprise.

Anyway, Vaas has been underestimated for more of his career than not, he'd still decimate Australia (or anyone else) easily in the right conditions and the right mood.

Obviously this is meant to be some sort of pointed attack on some bias or another of mine, or of Australian fans or something, but it's lost on me. I've seen both of them bowl recently and there's no question in my mind who the more dangerous bowler is. I've never really been a fan of Zaheer, but he's improved an amazing amount, and his new ball spell on Boxing Day was fantastic, and would have had several wickets against different opposition or with more luck. I do think Vaas has been a very good, if marginally overrated test bowler throughout his career, but he's not world class at this stage in his career, and I could easily name a dozen seamers world cricket right now who are superior. I don't think I could do the same with Zaheer.

 

[Migara]

Is this thread about Stu Clark / Vaas / Zaheer? Needs a poll I think.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Don't agree that Vaas has declined. He's simply bowling about 4 or 5 mph slower now than he was 4 years ago. He's still more than capable of producing the performances now as he ever was.

Being capable is one thing. Actually doing it is entirely another. He's only taken more than 2 wickets in an innings four times in his last 13 Tests over the last 2 years. One of those was against Bangladesh. And 7 times in that period he has failed to take more than 1 wicket (none or 1) having bowled more than 15 overs in the innings.

Vaas simply has not performed anywhere near his best over the last two years and I'd have expected you to notice. I'd have only expected it until your Nel > Harris rant.

 

[Pratters]

And Vaas in the same period in games against Test-class teams: 4 games, 12 at 35.25. Remove that SSC Test (which had a dire pitch) and it is 10 at 29.99.

Further, remove the Test v Australia and it is 9 at 20.72.

People who've watched him consistently all his career do rate him highly and fairly so. People who've watched him recently with clarity also note that he's not had much go his way, least of all in his Test in Australia.

About the only thing Zaheer has over Chaminda of late is that he's played more.

Look, some people seem to think I'm saying Zaheer Khan is crap - I'm certainly not. Nor that he's not better now than he was 24 months ago. But to suggest he's now better than Vaas is not on.

The stats I gave was to counter the point you raised. So I don't see why you give me Vaas' stats. As far as I am concerned, Zaheer is better than Vaas right now and can't fathom how you can say otherwise. As Gelman said a few weeks back when you talked on the issue, either

1) You haven't watched Zaheer bowl much in the recent past, or,

2) You haven't been watching the same cricket as we have been watching.

I am not alone in believing Zaheer>Vaas right now either. Some people I can think of who believe the same:

Pasag
Faaip
Prince EWS
Adharcric
SilentStriker
Perm

Really, I am perplexed how you can believe Vaas is greater than Zaheer right now. Crazy stuff.

 

[itduzz]

Stuart Clark is old man and will be done in few years. He can enjoy the lime light until Asif recovers from his injury.

 

[Perm]

Is this thread about Stu Clark / Vaas / Zaheer? Needs a poll I think.

Probably best that the discussion has moved to Zaheer-Vaas, as the opening post was only going to cause fighting.

 

[Perm]

There's a surprise.

WTF is this post all about? Truly perplexing Richard, and doesn't make you look good at all.

 

[Richard]

WTF is this post all about? Truly perplexing Richard, and doesn't make you look good at all.

Obviously this is meant to be some sort of pointed attack on some bias or another of mine, or of Australian fans or something, but it's lost on me.

It's nothing more than "oh, look, another one for the bandwagon".

I've seen both of them bowl recently and there's no question in my mind who the more dangerous bowler is. I've never really been a fan of Zaheer, but he's improved an amazing amount, and his new ball spell on Boxing Day was fantastic, and would have had several wickets against different opposition or with more luck. I do think Vaas has been a very good, if marginally overrated test bowler throughout his career, but he's not world class at this stage in his career, and I could easily name a dozen seamers world cricket right now who are superior. I don't think I could do the same with Zaheer.

I've seen both of them bowl recently and there's no question in my mind that there's no way you can accurately compare them, because the circumstances they've bowled in have been near enough completely inequable.

 

[Richard]

Being capable is one thing. Actually doing it is entirely another. He's only taken more than 2 wickets in an innings four times in his last 13 Tests over the last 2 years. One of those was against Bangladesh. And 7 times in that period he has failed to take more than 1 wicket (none or 1) having bowled more than 15 overs in the innings.

Vaas simply has not performed anywhere near his best over the last two years and I'd have expected you to notice. I'd have only expected it until your Nel > Harris rant.

Vaas has not performed anywhere near his best many times before, too, often enough over a reasonable length of time, too. He's always retained the capability to return to his very most penetrative at any time.

 

[Richard]

The stats I gave was to counter the point you raised. So I don't see why you give me Vaas' stats.

I think you misunderstand the point I raised. I was talking of Zaheer Khan only in the context of Chaminda Vaas, therefore one's performances are only important if the other's are also under consideration.

As far as I am concerned, Zaheer is better than Vaas right now and can't fathom how you can say otherwise. As Gelman said a few weeks back when you talked on the issue, either

1) You haven't watched Zaheer bowl much in the recent past, or,

2) You haven't been watching the same cricket as we have been watching.

I am not alone in believing Zaheer>Vaas right now either. Some people I can think of who believe the same:

Pasag
Faaip
Prince EWS
Adharcric
SilentStriker
Perm

Really, I am perplexed how you can believe Vaas is greater than Zaheer right now. Crazy stuff.

I'm well aware there's lots of people who think Zaheer has been better "of late" (start time varies). Yet I have watched him bowl, the cricket is all the same thing that gets transmitted to different people's TV sets, and I believe differently. Perhaps because I am not as quick to jump (rightly or wrongly) to conclusions about players as many people are, it's something we've seen many, many times before.