How much longer can Badrinath be kept out?

[Manee]

India have one of the best middle orders of the game but with Ganguly, Tendulkar, Laxman and Dravid ageing and reaching the rear end of their careers, they cannot exclusively be kept in the side based on past performances.

They are all currently doing well and should in a regular situation stay in the side but I wish to bring to your attention a player called Subramaniam Badrinath who has been in damn near unmatched form and ask you what should be done so that he is not discouraged? Squad place? Ahead of whom? Should one of the big four be dropped or Yuvraj? Or should he simply be left in domestic cricket, waiting for one of the big three to retire?

Everytime I check - this guy has scored another hundred...I have never heard of form like this:

FC cricket this season:

India A tour of Zimbabwe: 165 runs at average of 165 (2 innings)
India A tour of Kenya: 293 runs at no average (2 innings)
South Africa A tour of India: 200 runs at no average (1 inning)
Ranji Trophy: 639 runs at 79.87 (9 innings)

Overall: 1297 runs/9 outs = Average of 144.1 in his last 14 innings!

I understand that the generic responce is that he should wait, but does this form warrant a rather irrational drop of one of the middle order?

 

[NUFAN]

He should wait obviously.

Why would you drop any of the gun middle order for someone who's done well against teams in Zim and Kenya?

Batting isn't a problem for India..

 

[Richard]

I understand that the generic responce is that he should wait, but does this form warrant a rather irrational drop of one of the middle order?

Nothing warrants that. You can only drop a player who is not performing.

 

[Manee]

Nothing warrants that. You can only drop a player who is not performing.

By rather irrational, I mean after a drop in form of merely one to three series.

For example, I think Tendulkar's recent form should negate his earlier form in his career and he should only have a lease of two nightmare series' or three poor ones before being dropped. The conditions of two or three bad series, mentioned in this paragraph are my definition of 'irrational' in this case.

In the last two years, (since 01-01-2005) excluding Bangladesh, he has been little more than a good Test batsman in terms of performances, not his brilliant style.

Note: The 'unfiltered' takes out Bangladesh too, to make it fair.

                     Mat    I  NO  Runs HS1  HS2  HS3     Ave 100  50   0
unfiltered           137  223  22 10733 241* 217  201*  53.39  34  47  13
filtered              20   33   2  1156 109   94   91   37.29   1   9   1

 

[skipper]

I don't like him to be out of the team. I thought he would get the chance ahead of Uthappa and Rohit Sharma. He didn't.

Finally next year the selectors will say that he is too old to debut. It is a shame!

 

[Richard]

By rather irrational, I mean after a drop in form of merely one to three series.

For example, I think Tendulkar's recent form should negate his earlier form in his career and he should only have a lease of two nightmare series' or three poor ones before being dropped. The conditions of two or three bad series, mentioned in this paragraph are my definition of 'irrational' in this case.

In the last two years, (since 01-01-2005) excluding Bangladesh, he has been little more than a good Test batsman in terms of performances, not his brilliant style.

Note: The 'unfiltered' takes out Bangladesh too, to make it fair.

                     Mat    I  NO  Runs HS1  HS2  HS3     Ave 100  50   0
unfiltered           137  223  22 10733 241* 217  201*  53.39  34  47  13
filtered              20   33   2  1156 109   94   91   37.29   1   9   1

The thing is, though, 2005 and 2006 were radically different to 2006\07 and 2007. His last 2 series have been his most impressive for aaaaaages, and there's no way on Earth he can go now.

 

[Manee]

The thing is, though, 2005 and 2006 were radically different to 2006\07 and 2007. His last 2 series have been his most impressive for aaaaaages, and there's no way on Earth he can go now.

His last two Test series have not been spectacular.

Series         Win   Mat    I  NO  Runs HS1  HS2  HS3     Ave 100  50   0
Pataudi Trophy (Eng/Ind) in England, 2007 [Series]
               Ind     3    6   0   228  91   82   37   38.00   0   2   0
Pakistan in India, 2007/08 [Series]
               Ind     2    3   1   139  82   56*   1   69.50   0   2   0

Two performances and a bunch of failures (England) and two fifties against a sub par attack are hardly impressive enough to disregard the awful string of series' in 2005 and 2006.

EDIT: I am talking about Test matches here not ODIs if I did not make that clear in the first post. Not aimed at anyone, just making myself clear.

 

[NUFAN]

Manee who would Australia like to play against the most?

The great Sachin Tendulkar or Badrinath? lol.

 

[Manee]

Manee who would Australia like to play against the most?

The great Sachin Tendulkar or Badrinath? lol.

I see your point, which is why I asked if whether Badrinath should come into the side if Tendulkar (he is just an example of an Indian middle order player who is no longer a shadow of himself by the way) has an awful run of form for between 6-12 matches. How much pressure is it possible to put on squad members?

It is hard to discuss issues when others get in the way though. For example, I would always pick Tendulkar for Australia because I think it is best to go with an experienced, settled squad for a tough Test tour...

 

[haroon510]

Drop sachin and play him instead lol i would love it pak india series

 

[Manee]

Drop sachin and play him instead lol i would love it pak india series

You missed the point completely. I am asking if the middle order should be given slightly shorter leases of tolerance of bad form than otherwise because you have such a strong player forcing his way in the setup.

 

[Richard]

His last two Test series have not been spectacular.

Series         Win   Mat    I  NO  Runs HS1  HS2  HS3     Ave 100  50   0
Pataudi Trophy (Eng/Ind) in England, 2007 [Series]
               Ind     3    6   0   228  91   82   37   38.00   0   2   0
Pakistan in India, 2007/08 [Series]
               Ind     2    3   1   139  82   56*   1   69.50   0   2   0

Two performances and a bunch of failures (England) and two fifties against a sub par attack are hardly impressive enough to disregard the awful string of series' in 2005 and 2006.

Haha, forgot the Pakistan series actually - make that the last 3, meant South Africa and England.

England's attack certainly wasn't sub-par, Sidebottom and Tremlett bowled consistently very well and Anderson offered sporadic threat. Tendulkar batted well in that series.

 

[Manee]

England's attack certainly wasn't sub-par, Sidebottom and Tremlett bowled consistently very well and Anderson offered sporadic threat. Tendulkar batted well in that series.

He did, I was talking about the sub par attack being Pakistan. I thought Sidebottom, Tremlett and Anderson were fantastic together in English conditions.

 

[TheEpic]

Would it really do Badrinath any good if it was the common perception of the Indian fans that Tendulkar had to be dropped for him to be accomodated? The most popular player of his generation and adored by millions of fans being cast aside probably isn't a good idea.

 

[Richard]

If S turned-out to be the next Tendulkar, I doubt they'd mind overtly.

That's, obviously, unlikely. But you can only pick on the merits of the time, not of the past.

 

[Manee]

But you can only pick on the merits of the time, not of the past.

True. I know the Indian middle order is proven, but how much more can one do.

 

[Sanz]

True. I know the Indian middle order is proven, but how much more can one do.

Not much, but there is no other option for him other than wait for his time. It may come next year, it may come never. Yuvraj is in line before him. Badrinath is not alone. Take Michael Hussey for instance, he made his debut at 30 .

 

[Pup Clarke]

If S turned-out to be the next Tendulkar

Sreesanth to be the new Tendulkar?

 

[jeevan]

Badrinath should take heart from the one previous occasion that the Indian team went through something like this - the spin quartet winding down quickly in 78-79 (only Venkatraghavan, finally out of Prasanna's shadow, played for a few more seasons).

Dilip Doshi debuted (at 32) and had a few good seasons, believe he is almost in the top10 wicket takers for India.

Age-wise Badrinath is better situated than that. There are other contenders for sure but there are four openings and only one candidate definitely ahead of him (ie Yuvraj).

 

[Richard]

Sreesanth to be the new Tendulkar?

Nah, Badrinath is called S as well as Sreesanth.