-
Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!
If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
***Official*** England in Sri Lanka
- Thread starter JASON
- Start date
Have you data on Bangladesh's top 6 wickets....because their top 6 wickets are definitely more valuable than England's last 4 or India's last 4 or SA's last 4 or even NZ's last 4..
Not trying to turn this into Warne v Mural thing...but Murali's vociferous Australian and NZ critics (on Radio sport I listened to such as Brian Waddle and others alike) fail to realise this...
Stats show he has more wickets batting Numbers 1 - 6 than the previous holder and any way you want to look ....IMO....................... Bangladesh top 6 >>>> than England's last 4(especially with its notorious weakness to spin) or NZ's last 4 or West Indies last 4 or India's last 4....
Athlai
Not Terrible
Since May 2005 (not including the latest matches this year I believe)
Last 5 wickets per country
New Zealand 2146 34.61 3/ 11
Australia 4134 30.17 4/ 26
India 3355 27.05 5/ 16
Sri Lanka 3263 26.52 6/ 14
Pakistan 3662 25.78 6/ 13
England 4905 24.28 6/ 19
South Africa 3028 22.59 0/ 14
West Indies 3570 19.94 2/ 15
Bangers top 6 roughly 25.
So on par with Pakistans bottom 5.
Note: Khaled Mashud drags this figure down with an average 16.17
Last 5 wickets per country
New Zealand 2146 34.61 3/ 11
Australia 4134 30.17 4/ 26
India 3355 27.05 5/ 16
Sri Lanka 3263 26.52 6/ 14
Pakistan 3662 25.78 6/ 13
England 4905 24.28 6/ 19
South Africa 3028 22.59 0/ 14
West Indies 3570 19.94 2/ 15
Bangers top 6 roughly 25.
So on par with Pakistans bottom 5.
Note: Khaled Mashud drags this figure down with an average 16.17
That definitely spins the stats badly when you use last 5 and not last 4 ...especially when you consider Gilly is number 6 and Chamara Silva was 6 until recently and wasn't Yuvraj at 6 as well.... that really is pointless using the last 5 instead of last 4...
becuse it inflates the others while deflating the Bangers...Get some stats for last 4 and Bangers top6 if you can...
Even if it were pointless (comparing last 5 instead of last 4)...it still shows Bangers top 5 better average than West Indies last 5,England's bottom 5, SA 's bottom 5 and almost on par with Pakistan's bottom 5 ...
as I said comparing last 5 of other countries skews the comparison when you consider Gilly at 6 for Australia and the likes of Oram at 6 for NZ Yuvraj for India and Chamara Silva at 6 until recently for SL...
Athlai
Not Terrible
Wasn't trying to spin it but finding such obscure stats is quite difficult!
Team-wise averages of tail (Nos. 8-11) in Tests since 2005
Average 100s/ 50s
New Zealand 26.46 2/ 7
Australia 19.94 1/ 4
South Africa 19.35 0/ 6
India 118.34 0/ 4
Pakistan 17.71 3/ 3
Zimbabwe 16.64 0/ 6
Sri Lanka 15.69 0/ 4
Bangladesh 13.95 0/ 5
England 12.90 0/ 1
West Indies 12.60 0/ 6
OK that definitely proves one thing that I have said all along Bangladesh's top 5 wickets are more valuable than the rest of the countries wickets 8-11 ....As you had already said Bangers top 5 average 25 while all the 8-11 's average well below that... except Vettori having an effect on NZ 's stats for 8-11
Athlai
Not Terrible
Vettori and Franklin counter Martin very nicely.
Bangladesh's top 5 would be slightly more than 25 as the WK would generally not be included, 27-28 or so I think.
When it comes to bowling I have no problem in turning a blind eye to Bangers, batting on the other hand is a different story.
Don't think there's a Bangladesh bowler who averages less than 40.
Bangladesh's top 5 would be slightly more than 25 as the WK would generally not be included, 27-28 or so I think.
When it comes to bowling I have no problem in turning a blind eye to Bangers, batting on the other hand is a different story.
Don't think there's a Bangladesh bowler who averages less than 40.
Athlai
Not Terrible
How Tendulkar like is Bopara btw?Innnnnn other news, England somehow make Lunch without losing any more wickets.
JBH001
International Regular
Yeah, that would be cool.The perfect end for this Test from a SL perspective would be if Vaas took 2 of the remaining 5 for 5 'fer in his 100th Test and Sanath the other 3 to go to100 Test wickets in his last Test..
Murali has already had his moment, it would be good for the other two great servants of SL cricket since the early/mid 90s to also get a share of the recognition in this test match that they well deserve.
Do Murali good to not have everything go his way too, cricket being cricket and all!
(Still, lets not take this contest as over yet either - England surviving two sessions to draw remains a possibility)
Getting back to the original discussion...Thanks to your Stats...its quite clear that Muralis detractors who claim he has taken wickets from Bangers and Zim to fill his tally and thus cheap wickets are talking
horse **** ...as the guy has more wickets among wickets 1-6 than the previous holder (who has filled his tally with a large number of wickets 7-10 ) and wickets 1-6 from any Test Country(including Bangers) is more valuable than wickets 7-10 from any of the others...
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
Well he's nowhere near as good - apart from that he's pretty similar.
Seriously - other than colour of skin, the two have little in common.
Ok, I will....but had to make a point here...after listening to a morning of Murali lambasting and hatred on NZ's Radio Sport with a half Wit called Tony Veitch....and his guest buffoons...trying hard to suck up to the Aussies and ridiculing the guy in every possible way without any stats to back what they were trumpeting...
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
Harder to take? Yes. More valuable? No IMO. Matthew Hoggard scoring 20 runs would hurt you a lot more than Aftab Ahmed scoring 50, as England could quite well win on the back of Hoggard's innings whereas Bangladesh have no chance regardless. Hoggard's wicket may be easier to take than Aftab's, but it's not actually more valuable in test cricket IMO.JASON said:
Of course you'll probably reply with a whole heap of propaganda that isn't at all relevant to what I said, but meh. FTR I actually think Murali is a superior bowler to Warne, and it's not because of wickets record either.
You have no argument with me nor a dispute ....I am just responding out of disgust from Murali bashing I have heard and the propaganda by his detractors to belittle the guy's achievements...
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
Write to the producers. Most of us on CW (well, us British types anyway) have fortunately not experienced the rubbish.
JBH001
International Regular
So?
CW posters are usually more discerning than most NZ sports commentators.
Its very rare for NZ sporting commentators and writers to give credit where its due, and there is so much fanfare, hysteria and bum sucking over relatively mediocre to competent NZ players - probably another result of the NZ inferiority complex at work.
If you really wanted to pick an issue with Tony Veitch, Brian Waddle and the rest, all you had to do was ring in and say that Murali has something like 550 wickets in 90 odd tests not including Zim and Bang. You can then say that that figure is more than the combined tally of NZ's current bowlers against all test nations (it may then help if you talk to them too about Bonds wickets against Bang and Zim).