*** Official *** Pakistan in India

[gettingbetter]

This is where the differences between a side like Australia or South Africa and a side like India become obvious.

When India bowled Pak out today, they had a lead of about 160. Had Australia been in this position, they would've sent Hayden and Gilchrist out and the team would've been 350 ahead, smashing the bowlers at 6 an over. At this point they would've declared and sent Pak in to bat, with one or two Pak wickets already in the bag at the end of the day. Instead India choose to take it easy, score at 3.91 (absolutely NO sense of urgency) and pretty much guarantee a draw here.

There's just no urgency or instinct to win. I see a series whitewish or at most a draw or two in Australia. I don't think India are gonna win a single match there. England's superior outfit got thrashed in the Ashes pretty recently - I can't imagine what sort of mauling India are gonna take.

This is what separates the good teams from the mediocre ones.

Highly doubt that Gilchrist would of opened in such a situation. Looking at past scorecards when Australia have batted instead of enforcing the follow-on, I'm amazed by it, let me throw this into the ring - they want there averages to look better. I know it is not very water tight, but if you look at some of the scorecards, you'll see where I'm coming from.

Also, Pakistan going for the win, not very likely.

 

[social]

This match has draw written all over it.

India will set Pakistan an impossible target because the thought of losing far outweighs the benefit of going 2-0 up with only one to play

 

[silentstriker]

South Africa? They almost did the exact same thing vs. Australia in Sydney 2005/06.

You should know better.

 

[silentstriker]

This match has draw written all over it.

India will set Pakistan an impossible target because the thought of losing far outweighs the benefit of going 2-0 up with only one to play

I think India should declare pretty soon, with the target about 350-370. Maybe play out ten more overs in the morning, going all out (RR of 5-6). If you can't defend 370 in two and a half session, on a last day pitch, you really can't blame anyone but yourself. Plus, a target of 350 may mean that Pakistan decide to go for it, and that could work in India's favor too.

 

[Jono]

You should know better.

Yeah I know. But he's a different kind of troll, in the sense that he doesn't post just genuine crap, but even worse, words his arguments coherently and attempts to use what seems like a decent argument as support.

Problem is its crap.

 

[Agent TBY]

Test cricket is gun.

 

[jeevan]

Originally Posted by Evermind
This is where the differences between a side like Australia or South Africa and a side like India become obvious.

When India bowled Pak out today, they had a lead of about 160. Had Australia been in this position, they would've sent Hayden and Gilchrist out and the team would've been 350 ahead, smashing the bowlers at 6 an over. At this point they would've declared and sent Pak in to bat, with one or two Pak wickets already in the bag at the end of the day. Instead India choose to take it easy, score at 3.91 (absolutely NO sense of urgency) and pretty much guarantee a draw here.

There's just no urgency or instinct to win. I see a series whitewish or at most a draw or two in Australia. I don't think India are gonna win a single match there. England's superior outfit got thrashed in the Ashes pretty recently - I can't imagine what sort of mauling India are gonna take.

This is what separates the good teams from the mediocre ones.

Highly doubt that Gilchrist would of opened in such a situation. Looking at past scorecards when Australia have batted instead of enforcing the follow-on, I'm amazed by it, let me throw this into the ring - they want there averages to look better. I know it is not very water tight, but if you look at some of the scorecards, you'll see where I'm coming from.

Also, Pakistan going for the win, not very likely.

What separates the good posters from the mediocre ones is being able to back up assertions. If Evermind could oblige and provide a couple of instances of Australia and South Africa of:
- batting at 6 and above an over
- setting a total of less than 350 for innings 4
- while playing non-minnows

His thoughts would become somewhat credible. Doesnt even have to be on a pitch where the average wicket is costing over 75 runs (as this one is). Me - I'm finding instances of Australia getting test runs at ~ 4.5 runs/over and setting >400 totals.

Note that the Indian second innings was motoring along at 3.9 runs an over, which is very well above the test scoring norm - considering the defensive field that Pakistan had set from the start, e.g. 2 slips (Cost them the edge from Jaffer that went to 3rd slip, this was the second ball of the innings). No fielding restrictions like in ODIs.

 

[honestbharani]

Originally Posted by Evermind
This is where the differences between a side like Australia or South Africa and a side like India become obvious.

When India bowled Pak out today, they had a lead of about 160. Had Australia been in this position, they would've sent Hayden and Gilchrist out and the team would've been 350 ahead, smashing the bowlers at 6 an over. At this point they would've declared and sent Pak in to bat, with one or two Pak wickets already in the bag at the end of the day. Instead India choose to take it easy, score at 3.91 (absolutely NO sense of urgency) and pretty much guarantee a draw here.

There's just no urgency or instinct to win. I see a series whitewish or at most a draw or two in Australia. I don't think India are gonna win a single match there. England's superior outfit got thrashed in the Ashes pretty recently - I can't imagine what sort of mauling India are gonna take.

This is what separates the good teams from the mediocre ones.



What separates the good posters from the mediocre ones is being able to back up assertions. If Evermind could oblige and provide a couple of instances of Australia and South Africa of:
- batting at 6 and above an over
- setting a total of less than 350 for innings 4
- while playing non-minnows

His thoughts would become somewhat credible. Doesnt even have to be on a pitch where the average wicket is costing over 75 runs (as this one is). Me - I'm finding instances of Australia getting test runs at ~ 4.5 runs/over and setting >400 totals.

Note that the Indian second innings was motoring along at 3.9 runs an over, which is very well above the test scoring norm - considering the defensive field that Pakistan had set from the start, e.g. 2 slips (Cost them the edge from Jaffer that went to 3rd slip, this was the second ball of the innings). No fielding restrictions like in ODIs.

yeah... I don't think this is THAT bad but still... one wonders why Dhoni was promoted up coz he is scoring at abt the same rate as Dinesh Karthik, who was in poor form and was basically playing for his place... given how much India like to forget the success of non-glamourous batsmen in the longer format......


Does anyone think Dravid or Sachin could NOT have scored 28 off 54 in this pitch against this bowling?????????

 

[funnygirl]

yeah... I don't think this is THAT bad but still... one wonders why Dhoni was promoted up coz he is scoring at abt the same rate as Dinesh Karthik, who was in poor form and was basically playing for his place... given how much India like to forget the success of non-glamourous batsmen in the longer format......


Does anyone think Dravid or Sachin could NOT have scored 28 off 54 in this pitch against this bowling?????????

It was a poor move .Dhoni is not looking good .They could have sent Tendulkar ,Dravid or even VVS who is in good form ahead of Dhoni .

 

[jeevan]

yeah... I don't think this is THAT bad but still... one wonders why Dhoni was promoted up coz he is scoring at abt the same rate as Dinesh Karthik, who was in poor form and was basically playing for his place... given how much India like to forget the success of non-glamourous batsmen in the longer format......


Does anyone think Dravid or Sachin could NOT have scored 28 off 54 in this pitch against this bowling?????????

I can think of 2 reasons to promote Dhoni even if he ends up beign no better than Dravid, Tendulkar (which in this innings so far he hasnt):
- Better ability to go over the top, when possible. I stopped watching , but could be that he just didnt find/make the opportunities. Going over the top is the one sure way to counter a defensive field. Ganguly too is better at this than Dravid, Tendulkar.
- In any game plan where a few quick wickets can be lost, better Dhoni than Dravid to go to plan B (bat for the draw).

If Yuvraj (or even Irfan) had been in the XI, very large chance that he would've been the No 3 today.

 

[honestbharani]

I can think of 2 reasons to promote Dhoni even if he ends up beign no better than Dravid, Tendulkar (which in this innings so far he hasnt):
- Better ability to go over the top, when possible. I stopped watching , but could be that he just didnt find/make the opportunities. Going over the top is the one sure way to counter a defensive field. Ganguly too is better at this than Dravid, Tendulkar.
- In any game plan where a few quick wickets can be lost, better Dhoni than Dravid to go to plan B (bat for the draw).

If Yuvraj (or even Irfan) had been in the XI, very large chance that he would've been the No 3 today.

tbh, I was more like questioning Dhoni's batting than the promotion....

 

[NUFAN]

I can think of 2 reasons to promote Dhoni even if he ends up beign no better than Dravid, Tendulkar (which in this innings so far he hasnt):
- Better ability to go over the top, when possible. I stopped watching , but could be that he just didnt find/make the opportunities. Going over the top is the one sure way to counter a defensive field. Ganguly too is better at this than Dravid, Tendulkar.
- In any game plan where a few quick wickets can be lost, better Dhoni than Dravid to go to plan B (bat for the draw).

If Yuvraj (or even Irfan) had been in the XI, very large chance that he would've been the No 3 today.

This is what separates the good teams and the bad teams tbh.

There was no reason to be even thinking about a draw!

 

[silentstriker]

I can think of 2 reasons to promote Dhoni even if he ends up beign no better than Dravid, Tendulkar (which in this innings so far he hasnt):
- Better ability to go over the top, when possible. I stopped watching , but could be that he just didnt find/make the opportunities. Going over the top is the one sure way to counter a defensive field. Ganguly too is better at this than Dravid, Tendulkar.

Regardless of their career strike rate, if I need someone to go out and hit a quick Test century, I am going to pick Dravid and Tendulkar over Dhoni ten times out ten. It wouldn't even be a debate in my mind.

 

[jeevan]

This is what separates the good teams and the bad teams tbh.

There was no reason to be even thinking about a draw!

Are we talking about the same Kolkata match? Till about 30 min before India started batting, a draw was exactly where this was headed. (And out of box act of bringing Laxman in changed it).

 

[jeevan]

Regardless of their career strike rate, if I need someone to go out and hit a quick Test century, I am going to pick Dravid and Tendulkar over Dhoni ten times out ten. It wouldn't even be a debate in my mind.

Given Dhoni's limited ability to compile any sort of test century, if a big personal score was the task definition - hard to disagree with you. I am interpreting the decision to send him at 3 / need of the situation, to score runs quickly against a defensive field, on a pitch where you cant use the pace of the ball too much to place the ball among the gaps.

One answer is to go for sixers. Which is one of the few things Dhoni does better, or used to.

 

[silentstriker]

Given Dhoni's limited ability to compile any sort of test century, if a big personal score was the task definition - hard to disagree with you. I am interpreting the decision to send him at 3 / need of the situation, to score runs quickly against a defensive field, on a pitch where you cant use the pace of the ball too much to place the ball among the gaps.

One answer is to go for sixers. Which is one of the few things Dhoni does better, or used to.

Again, if you want him to score runs for more than twenty minutes, e.g, controlled aggression towards a defensive field - I'd still have Dravid or Tendulkar.

 

[viktor]

I am no fan of Dhoni's but when has Dravid done what you mention? Especially when we have been looking to declare?

 

[haroon510]

India is playing defensive cricket here.. and i understand why. they are trying to draw this match so that they don't lose the test series.. if this match is draw.. the worst that can happen to india is pakistan level the series. if they wanted a result they would have played attacking cricket.. they simply promoted dhoni because of bating practice.

 

[Mystery]

I'm not as familiar with Test cricket, so was wondering if someone would mind explaining to me what would have to occur in order for this particular match to result in a DRAW. Kinda confused on that.

 

[silentstriker]

I am no fan of Dhoni's but when has Dravid done what you mention? Especially when we have been looking to declare?

Ah, The Great Myth of Dravid. He doesn't play like Dhoni, not because he can't, but because he is not an idiot.