Official Pro-Wrestling Thread (WWE, TNA, ROH etc.)

[33/3from3.3]

I'm surprised they let him do it, apparently the last time he tried to do it in training he botched it and injured someone. But it will be funny seeing him do it, him being some random old school style wrestler and a full on redneck at that, just busting out the Canadian Destroyer out of nowhere

It wasn't a Canadian destroyer. It was a Sunset flip power bomb. Definitely wasn't any form of piledriver.

 

[andruid]

Because they entered the attitude era, and started caring more for personalities rather than gimmicks?

Thank god for that.

What do you mean, the gimmicks were a good way for the whole wrestling fraternity to keep from taking themselves too seriously

 

[Barney Rubble]

It wasn't a Canadian destroyer. It was a Sunset flip power bomb. Definitely wasn't any form of piledriver.

A sunset flip powerbomb can only be performed off the turnbuckle or off a ladder, or off the apron, otherwise it's just a normal sunset flip. And what Murdoch did was clearly not a sunset flip.

WWE.com was actually describing the move as a modified Canadian Destroyer for a while, until they realised that that was Petey Williams' name for it rather than the name of the move itself, and they took the description down.

 

[Majin]

In the process of downloading SS now (**** if I'm paying £15 to watch PPV's when I already pay money for Sky Sports as it is), so I guess I'll see soon enough. :}

 

[Majin]

Yeah it's basically a hybrid of a sunset flip and the Canadian destroyer, instead of just putting the head between the legs and flipping like Petey Williams does, he hooked Cody Rhodes arms behind his legs as well and then flipped. It looks sort of like the counter Rey Mysterio has done a few times where he swings through his opponents legs into a powerbomb. Pretty cool, but no Canadian Destroyer

 

[Barney Rubble]

Yeah it's basically a hybrid of a sunset flip and the Canadian destroyer, instead of just putting the head between the legs and flipping like Petey Williams does, he hooked Cody Rhodes arms behind his legs as well and then flipped. It looks sort of like the counter Rey Mysterio has done a few times where he swings through his opponents legs into a powerbomb. Pretty cool, but no Canadian Destroyer

Yeah, it's nowhere near as good as Petey's version, but it's pretty amazing for a guy of Murdoch's size and build. Especially given how badly he botched it when he tried it on Matt Hardy about 6 months ago.

Also, if anyone saw last night's ECW, Shelton Benjamin is there now, and seems to be using a pretty sweet-looking Swinging STO as his finisher now. Better than the "T-Bone-That-Wasn't-A-T-Bone-At-All" that he used to use.

 

[Majin]

Man I always wondered why he got rid of the Dragon Whip finisher, that move was sweet.

More than anyone though MVP needs a new finisher. The overdrive is the worst move in the history of wrestling

 

[headhunter]

Wrestling's not real!

 

[easterner7]

Majin, I'd be interested to know why you thought it was funny that Jericho said he'd come to save us from Orton's "child bearing hips." That kind of attack on someone's personal characteristics (including what he said about Orton's face) have no place on RAW, or anywhere. It's meaningless also, as it has nothing to do with Orton's abilities, which is what Jericho is there to face. Basically, Jericho made himself look like a jerk by saying that, much as the moron in the schoolyard does when he picks on people with meaningless slurs. I'd be interested to hear why you think this juvenile rant by Jericho was funny.

 

[Majin]

Yes, because he was obviously being 100% serious with those comments and Randy Orton really does have child bearing hips!

Jericho's promos are always like that and funny because he comes out with random insults that half of the time make no sense and are just completely random. Having "No place on RAW" is a ridiculous statement, possibly one of the dumbest things I have ever heard, this sort of thing has been commonplace in the WWE since the start of the attitude era, The Rock was legendary for it, Austin has never been afraid to verbally brutalise someone, DX were DX, I can't be bothered to go through the list anymore. If you have a problem with it, watch the show with the sound off.

 

[Barney Rubble]

Yes, because he was obviously being 100% serious with those comments and Randy Orton really does have child bearing hips!

Jericho's promos are always like that and funny because he comes out with random insults that half of the time make no sense and are just completely random. Having "No place on RAW" is a ridiculous statement, possibly one of the dumbest things I have ever heard, this sort of thing has been commonplace in the WWE since the start of the attitude era, The Rock was legendary for it, Austin has never been afraid to verbally brutalise someone, DX were DX, I can't be bothered to go through the list anymore. If you have a problem with it, watch the show with the sound off.

Looks like we have a mark, Majin. Do you want to break it to him or shall I?

 

[Barney Rubble]

Wrestling's not real!

It is real in most senses. The applicable word is scripted. No, the participants aren't really trying to hurt each other, but that doesn't mean that throwing yourself off a 15ft ladder and elbow dropping a guy through a table doesn't hurt. You've only got to look at the amount of injuries that occur in wrestling to know it's extremely dangerous.

 

[nikhil1772]

It is real in most senses. The applicable word is scripted. No, the participants aren't really trying to hurt each other, but that doesn't mean that throwing yourself off a 15ft ladder and elbow dropping a guy through a table doesn't hurt. You've only got to look at the amount of injuries that occur in wrestling to know it's extremely dangerous.

I agree with you totally but... Why does this question of wrestling being real,unreal keep coming up? People not getting the concept of pro-wrestling should stop talking.

By the way its been long since I've posted in this thread. Though I'd love to,we get 2 week delayed coverage of WWE here,so I cant comment on anything without reading any spoilers... *sigh*

 

[Barney Rubble]

I agree with you totally but... Why does this question of wrestling being real,unreal keep coming up? People not getting the concept of pro-wrestling should stop talking.

By the way its been long since I've posted in this thread. Though I'd love to,we get 2 week delayed coverage of WWE here,so I cant comment on anything without reading any spoilers... *sigh*

I read spoilers all the time. This week has been one of the best weeks of the year for WWE, a lot of good things going on. You've got a lot to look forward to.

 

[headhunter]

It is real in most senses. The applicable word is scripted. No, the participants aren't really trying to hurt each other, but that doesn't mean that throwing yourself off a 15ft ladder and elbow dropping a guy through a table doesn't hurt. You've only got to look at the amount of injuries that occur in wrestling to know it's extremely dangerous.

Point noted.

 

[easterner7]

Majin,

It's clear to see, and just as I expected, from your snide retort to my constructive question, that you know you are wrong in condoning this. I just wanted to read your response - and I have my answer. Regardless of the WWE's "attitide era" (they've just been uncreative for a long time), attacking things that are a natural part of a person is foolishness and does nothing to advance the show or make it entertaining. In fact, it really should paint the person who says those lines as the "heel." The "good guy" doesn't talk like that. But that's the WWE isn't it? Illogical. This is the best they can do? It's pathetic, really, that they have to stoop this low when there are plenty of creative ways to build this feud.

 

[easterner7]

And by the way, folks. I know it's scripted. I get it Barney Rubble. My point is that even in the script, the kind of personal comments made on Monday's RAW are still out of place. The criticism is for the person who scripted those lines for Jericho to say. You folks sound like you are the kind of audience who can see the difference between the silliness of the WWE's "product" and real life, but I daresay the majority of wrestling audiences cannot. And that's the problem. That's why they should refrain from getting personal. There's plenty of other ways to be entertaining - but - and this has been proven for a long time - the WWE is incapable of producing decent entertainment. For the most part, it's the same old, predictable nonsense, so the best they can do is take the low road.

 

[Barney Rubble]

That might be your take on things, but personally, the only reason wrestling entertains me is because it's so far removed from real life. I love seeing a guy come out and do something ridiculous to take the **** out of his opponent - witness Eddie Guerrero auctioning off all of Kurt Angle's medals in the middle of the ring, or DX dressing up as the McMahons, or Angle impersonating Shawn Michaels' entrance. It's what's necessary to get over these days as a face - you can't just be Ultimate Warrior and beat your chest a bit, shake the ropes and get yourself a world title (unless you're Batista). People are bored of that, they want to see personalities. If a guy's not allowed to take the **** out of his opponent a little bit, what's he supposed to say in a promo?

 

[easterner7]

That might be your take on things, but personally, the only reason wrestling entertains me is because it's so far removed from real life. I love seeing a guy come out and do something ridiculous to take the **** out of his opponent - witness Eddie Guerrero auctioning off all of Kurt Angle's medals in the middle of the ring, or DX dressing up as the McMahons, or Angle impersonating Shawn Michaels' entrance. It's what's necessary to get over these days as a face - you can't just be Ultimate Warrior and beat your chest a bit, shake the ropes and get yourself a world title (unless you're Batista). People are bored of that, they want to see personalities. If a guy's not allowed to take the **** out of his opponent a little bit, what's he supposed to say in a promo?

Well, I just think that a crack creative team can find ways to take the *** out of the opponent without resorting to poking fun at a person's physical characteristics. That's the mark of a great writing team, finding creative and entertaining ways to present the material, ways that are relative to the story they're writing. This is something the WWE clearly lacks. Poking fun at someone's face isn't creative, it isn't interesting. In fact, it just sets a bad example to those fans who don't see the real vs kayfabe element of all this. And there are enough bad examples with the frequent use of sledghammers, chairs, etc.

I do think that the things you cited, Guerrero auctioning off Angle's medals, DX dressing up as the McMahons, etc., is irreverence that works, but when it comes down to simply ridiculing a physical characteristic, the line is crossed - it's no longer entertainment. It doesn't even make sense, really, because several of the things criticized about Orton weren't even criticism worthy - they're just different body characteristics. It would be like a brown haired guy ridiculing a blond haired guy about the color of his hair. Doesn't make sense. Who cares? It makes me wonder what's going on in the creative board room when this is what they are concentrating on. Also, the dialogue given to Jericho was more like the dialogue a "heel" would say. Does the "good guy" resort to cheap stuff like that? Not usually. Again, more stuff that doesn't make sense. I guess I'm looking for a little more thought in my entertainment with the WWE. There's a sad lack of creativity and continuity and when you add the borderline inappropriate (yes, IMHO) comments, it makes for programming not worth watching. I'm getting close to tuning out completely - maybe it's time.

 

[Barney Rubble]

Well, I just think that a crack creative team can find ways to take the *** out of the opponent without resorting to poking fun at a person's physical characteristics. That's the mark of a great writing team, finding creative and entertaining ways to present the material, ways that are relative to the story they're writing. This is something the WWE clearly lacks. Poking fun at someone's face isn't creative, it isn't interesting. In fact, it just sets a bad example to those fans who don't see the real vs kayfabe element of all this. And there are enough bad examples with the frequent use of sledghammers, chairs, etc.

I do think that the things you cited, Guerrero auctioning off Angle's medals, DX dressing up as the McMahons, etc., is irreverence that works, but when it comes down to simply ridiculing a physical characteristic, the line is crossed - it's no longer entertainment. It doesn't even make sense, really, because several of the things criticized about Orton weren't even criticism worthy - they're just different body characteristics. It would be like a brown haired guy ridiculing a blond haired guy about the color of his hair. Doesn't make sense. Who cares? It makes me wonder what's going on in the creative board room when this is what they are concentrating on. Also, the dialogue given to Jericho was more like the dialogue a "heel" would say. Does the "good guy" resort to cheap stuff like that? Not usually. Again, more stuff that doesn't make sense. I guess I'm looking for a little more thought in my entertainment with the WWE. There's a sad lack of creativity and continuity and when you add the borderline inappropriate (yes, IMHO) comments, it makes for programming not worth watching. I'm getting close to tuning out completely - maybe it's time.

I'm beginning to see your point more and more, and I certainly agree that the WWE is hardly doing brilliantly at this point in time, but one thing I think I should point out is that it's not WWE Creative who write the promos. It's the wrestlers themselves. Creative books the matches and writes the feuds, and might give the wrestlers an indication of vaguely what kind of thing to say, but anything Jericho said in his return promo would have been written by him.

If Creative scripted every promo, then why would some people be useless on the mic? Look at Bobby Lashley or Jeff Hardy - "Er, I'm gonna beat you. Yeah, you heard me, I'm gonna win. Yeah." If the same people wrote those promos as wrote The Rock's, Michaels' or even Vince's himself for that matter, why wouldn't they at least make those guys a bit more interesting? If the WWE's product is lacking in good promos right now, it's the wrestlers' fault, not Creative. Mind you, Creative are the ones whole dole out mic time to the likes of Batista, so maybe they are to blame.