***Official*** New Zealand in South Africa

[ohtani's jacket]

It was ridiculous for New Zealand to go on tour to South Africa in the first place. They need a summer of cricket at home before embarking on any overseas Test tours. They might be crap at Test cricket, but they've at least won a few series at home in the past few seasons.

 

[Athlai]

It was ridiculous for New Zealand to go on tour to South Africa in the first place. They need a summer of cricket at home before embarking on any overseas Test tours. They might be crap at Test cricket, but they've at least won a few series at home in the past few seasons.

Actually (excluding the bloody Aussies) NZ hasn't lost a home test series since 2003 against Pak.

 

[pasag]

Thanks Bill Lawry.

Removed until you get permission from the poster.

 

[Francis]

I already had permission! There's a thread where Edmund's says it's quite complimentary. It's in the old World Cup archives... can't find it!

 

[ohtani's jacket]

Actually (excluding the bloody Aussies) NZ hasn't lost a home test series since 2003 against Pak.

SO, we know we can beat Bangladesh, Zimbabwe and the West Indies. Sri Lanka, India and Pakistan don't really like playing in NZ. That leaves our Anglo-Saxon big brothers as the teams that keep thumping us. Eh, it's been happening since the 1930s.

 

[Athlai]

SO, we know we can beat Bangladesh, Zimbabwe and the West Indies. Sri Lanka, India and Pakistan don't really like playing in NZ. That leaves our Anglo-Saxon big brothers as the teams that keep thumping us. Eh, it's been happening since the 1930s.

England classy at drawing here I must admit.

The terms for my victory:
NZ win or draw series.

Shame about the weather here too.

 

[pasag]

I already had permission! There's a thread where Edmund's says it's quite complimentary. It's in the old World Cup archives... can't find it!

I'm under the impression that he wasn't too happy with the situation, from a conversation had after the WC.

 

[Prince EWS]

I already had permission! There's a thread where Edmund's says it's quite complimentary. It's in the old World Cup archives... can't find it!

You're referring to this post, I think. Hardly permission IMO, especially when you consider this one.

 

[pasag]

Francis, if you continue to put the picture in your avatar without express permission from _ed_, you will find yourself banned for a week. Last warning.

 

[Francis]

Trust me when I say I'm not trying to be smart here. Could you please just ask him so he can tell you I got permission? Please just ask him before you do anything!

 

[pasag]

Yeah, ok. Next time I see him on MSN I'll ask him and then send you an email with the response (provided it's the same one you signed up with). Until then keep it down.

 

[Isolator]

Franklin's a very good test player, rest assured.

I think he CAN be decent. But he is not now, and I doubt he will be.

I say Mills will prove to be significantly better.

 

[Natman20]

Sorry to say this but you have to have the faith of Jesus or Buddha to believe in the Blackcaps

Well the blackcaps have been under-rated in particular years. They have one a hang of a lot of ODIs. Tests well... meh. Semi-finals in both world champs is good even if they may have relied on some favourable results as well.

As I see it now, there is a lack of depth which I was confident we had a couple years ago. Now that some of these 'good' domestic players have been given a run and some openers have again capitulated I have lost a little confidence mainly in our batting which is either inneffective or we rely on the bowlers to complete the work for us. We need to start winning some overseas tours and New Zealand pitch conditions are not like the others which makes it harder to prepare. e.g a lot of front foot players who get out doing that same thing when the ball bounces more than expected. There should be no excuses though. They are making stupid mistakes and some of them look like they can play better than they do.

We will see how they go in the ODI series there but I am predicting a 3-0 whitewash with SA the victors. Unfortunately the selectors have made some poor decisions and we lack consistency in our squad. I am glad Mills is back, because I liked his style when everyoe thought he was just a crap player. He is consistent and threatning in ODIs. Lets hope his injury and time out of international cricket doesn't dent his bowling too much.

 

[Dick Rockett]

I don't think New Zealanders appreciate how terrible their team is to watch either. It's one thing to lose badly, which NZ do, but in order for countries to want to play you, they have to be convinced of your entertainment value.

That's not really relevant. the Future Tours Program is supposed to ensure that every test nation plays all the others on a home and away basis over a specified period of time - they're not supposed to have a choice. I realise that in reality certain countries with enormous financial clout are able to run roughshod over this arrangement, but that has more to do with the ICC being spineless than anything else.

On another, more simple note, I don't buy that NZ are poor to watch. We actually made a World Cup semi this year - 12 other teams in the tournament didn't. If you're going to make the point that we're a poor test team to watch, I'll once again point out that if we don't play any tests we can hardly be a mouthwatering prospect can we?

Right now New Zealand are no better a cricket side than Bangladesh. In order to have some entertaining competitive cricket it's best they start playing them.

I simply can't agree with this. Being a New Zealand cricket fan does familiarise one with the overwhelming cynicism that generally surrounds the national team, but the idea that we are somehow on the same level as Bangladesh is nonsense, even though they are improving and we have just had an abject series. I look forward to watching the Bangladeshis when they come here, but they will get pwned.

 

[Flem274*]

I'm just making the point that in each game different players make different scores. Gibbs and Smith didn't make good scores. That's not to say they couldn't do it in the next game. I said that basically because you're trying to say Amla and Kallis were the difference, but in any game there's usually two or three players who were the difference. SA may many players who could be the difference.



Fleming's below 40 and should be dropped from New Zealand. Fine batsman once upon a time, but... what's a word opposite to "talismanic"? Fleming's a hex on the New Zealand batting - he prevents it from flourishing.

Please die. Right now. Seriously, just die. Its for the good of the planet.

Back to retirement.

 

[Francis]

On another, more simple note, I don't buy that NZ are poor to watch. We actually made a World Cup semi this year - 12 other teams in the tournament didn't.

I really haven't criticised New Zealand as a one day side. As a one-day side they're quite good. I thought they overachieved by making the semis this year and congrats to them. As a Test side they are incredibly poor.

If you're going to make the point that we're a poor test team to watch, I'll once again point out that if we don't play any tests we can hardly be a mouthwatering prospect can we?

This argument by New Zealanders that they don't play enough Tests is wearing a little thin to be honest. Ricky Ponting was worried about the Aussies lack of Test experience in the last few months, but they remained focused and goal driven and coughed out another fine series performance. There's nothing entertaining about how New Zealand play aside from Shane Bond IMO.

I simply can't agree with this. Being a New Zealand cricket fan does familiarise one with the overwhelming cynicism that generally surrounds the national team, but the idea that we are somehow on the same level as Bangladesh is nonsense, even though they are improving and we have just had an abject series. I look forward to watching the Bangladeshis when they come here, but they will get pwned.

I'm going to retract what I said before about Bangladesh being able to beat them. I went over the top. I believe if New Zealand played Bangladesh they'd beat them 2-0... but it would be more competitive than the SA series IMO. Saying the Bangas are better was silly of me I'll admit.

Please die. Right now. Seriously, just die. Its for the good of the planet.

Back to retirement.

You're from Taranaki, the town of the great Graeme Mourie, so I'll go easy on Flem in the future. All I'll say is I think it might be in NZ's interest for him to retire and make way for some new talent.

 

[NZTailender]

New Zealand are ranked about right in tests. We're not world betters and we have few test class players. But we have the right to play South Africa in tests as much as the other sides.
A runner who runs everyday will always perform better in a marathon than someone who doesn't run for a year. NZ need to play more tests - albeit, against weaker nations first, as a warm up (temporarily, so I'm agreeing with you here a bit Francis) - before they can perform better.

 

[Dick Rockett]

I don't buy that. One bad series doesn't make us as abject a side as everyone is making out. We are test standard, and we deserve to play all the other teams - bollocks to this playing the weaker teams stuff.

Someone was saying something a while back about how our batsmen only average in the 30s and so on, well that was true in the 80s too, and we were pretty good then. What we lack is two or three talismanic players who are a consistent rallying point. We may have Bond, but he's injured all the time, and we haven't had a truly awesome batsman since Martin Crowe in the '92 World Cup.

 

[Natman20]

I checked out the stats of every player in last weeks state championship round and unfortunately the signs are quite grim. We have a lot of younger players playing but they have not made an impact in their games to the extent that previous players did. Hardly any average over 35 and those that do quite often average 20 or so in List A. The bowling is equally as poor. No stand-outs really. Just players that take 1 or 2 per innings at around 33 or more.

Hmmm. I'm sure I am over-reacting but I think it may take a few years for us to be any success at Tests yet. South Africa hardly did anything wrong and played very well so that is probably the main reason. We will have to see the ODIs to make any judgements yet. Our current crop over there surely arn't as bad as they performed.

BTW - Sinclair averaging 47 in First class cricket after how many years has to mean something above the norm in New Zealand doesn't everyone think? His average is about 15 above ordinary kiwi batsmen. He performed poorly at one stage for internationals but that was because of his slow ODI strike rate and lower scores trying to up it. He deserved more chances than he has got.

 

[Dick Rockett]

Sinclair averaging 47 in First class cricket after how many years has to mean something above the norm in New Zealand doesn't everyone think? His average is about 15 above ordinary kiwi batsmen. He performed poorly at one stage for internationals but that was because of his slow ODI strike rate and lower scores trying to up it. He deserved more chances than he has got.

Mathew Sinclair has been a victim of our selectors' inability to understand the very basic idea that success in one format of the game will not necessarily translate to success in the other. The same thing will happen to Jesse Ryder: he has an excellent First Class record and a crap one day record. Unfortunately for him he'll be selected for the national ODI squad because "he's a big hitter", will fail and then be discarded.

This happens time and again with our players, another classic example is playing batsmen out of position and then having a whinge. Examples are Hamish Marshall, Lou Vincent, Brendon McCullum, and of course Sinclair himself. All have been successful in their native position in the order yet get discarded for failing in a role they are either not suited to, not familiar with, or reluctant to carry out.