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Tendulkar vs Kallis

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
I could not care less if someone who was magnificent for 12 years then becomes lesser - it's not like you've demonstrated a lack of longevity.
Then by the same token, stop giving him extra credit for starting early. The guy was in his mid-20s at the start of the millennium.

I love how all these debates seem to connect your arguments together. Why Richards' record is demeaned because he kept playing on isn't factored the same way here is also a mystery. Richards was averaging 60, too against great bowling. Yet it is unfathomable to you that he could be 2nd greatest batsman of all time. Sorry to link these up and digress, it just seems strangely weird and inconsistent, not to mention biased.

I've never once said Ponting > Dravid, it's as laughable a claim as Ponting > Tendulkar, one only a "nutter" (or someone so blinded by Aussie-Aussie-Aussie that "if all else is equal, being Australian be the casting vote) could make.
I am not saying you said Ponting > Dravid. BUT for the wider audience it's something that gets acknowledged with respect these days. You also consider it a worthy comparison that Dravid could be equal to Tendulkar, if not better...so why is it when Punter's name comes around that his record in the 90s is used to denigrate his record, when it is good enough to compare him favourably to Dravid, but not Sachin?
 

pasag

RTDAS
I've never once said Ponting > Dravid, it's as laughable a claim as Ponting > Tendulkar, one only a "nutter" (or someone so blinded by Aussie-Aussie-Aussie that "if all else is equal, being Australian be the casting vote) could make.
Ponting > Dravid
 

Jamee999

Hall of Fame Member
Hmmm...

Test One
Code:
JH Kallis XI versus SR Tendulkar XI

JH Kallis XI
 JH Kallis         stSR Tendulkar      b SR Tendulkar      	206 (313)
 JH Kallis                             b SR Tendulkar      	15 (40)
 JH Kallis                             b SR Tendulkar      	268 (414)
 JH Kallis         c SR Tendulkar      b SR Tendulkar      	56 (69)
 JH Kallis                      not out                	100 (113)
 JH Kallis                      not out                	10 (11)
 Extras		( w19 nb3 b7 lb12 )		41

	Total (from 160 overs)	696 - 4 declared
Fall of wickets:
1-40  2-410  3-516  4-666  

Bowling Figures for SR Tendulkar XI

                  O	M	R	W
SR Tendulkar      26	2	116	1	
SR Tendulkar      25	2	139	0	
SR Tendulkar      22	5	73	2	
SR Tendulkar      21	3	82	0	
SR Tendulkar      18	2	79	0	
SR Tendulkar      20	1	83	0	
SR Tendulkar      11	2	38	0	
SR Tendulkar      14	2	54	1	
SR Tendulkar      3	0	13	0	

SR Tendulkar XI
 SR Tendulkar                 lbw      b JH Kallis         	31 (91)
 SR Tendulkar      c JH Kallis         b JH Kallis         	66 (165)
 SR Tendulkar      c JH Kallis         b JH Kallis         	28 (50)
 SR Tendulkar                 lbw      b JH Kallis         	31 (39)
 SR Tendulkar      c JH Kallis         b JH Kallis         	27 (64)
 SR Tendulkar      c JH Kallis         b JH Kallis         	6 (14)
 SR Tendulkar      c JH Kallis         b JH Kallis         	26 (57)
 SR Tendulkar      c JH Kallis         b JH Kallis         	74 (91)
 SR Tendulkar                          b JH Kallis         	25 (42)
 SR Tendulkar      c JH Kallis         b JH Kallis         	25 (80)
 SR Tendulkar                   not out                	27 (46)
 Extras		( w2 nb3 b11 lb22 )		38

	Total (from 124 overs)	404 All out
Fall of wickets:
1-86  2-141  3-157  4-194  5-212  6-216  7-287  8-332  9-352  10-404  

Bowling Figures for JH Kallis XI

                  O	M	R	W
JH Kallis         22	5	71	2	
JH Kallis         26	3	81	1	
JH Kallis         23	3	64	3	
JH Kallis         21	4	69	1	
JH Kallis         13	3	40	1	
JH Kallis         12	4	31	1	
JH Kallis         6	1	15	1	

SR Tendulkar XI (Following on)
 SR Tendulkar      c JH Kallis         b JH Kallis         	6 (16)
 SR Tendulkar                 lbw      b JH Kallis         	55 (101)
 SR Tendulkar                   run out                	54 (115)
 SR Tendulkar      c JH Kallis         b JH Kallis         	74 (161)
 SR Tendulkar                          b JH Kallis         	105 (181)
 SR Tendulkar      c JH Kallis         b JH Kallis         	15 (16)
 SR Tendulkar      c JH Kallis         b JH Kallis         	58 (118)
 SR Tendulkar                 lbw      b JH Kallis         	13 (22)
 SR Tendulkar                 lbw      b JH Kallis         	17 (33)
 SR Tendulkar                   not out                	33 (51)
 SR Tendulkar                      c & b JH Kallis         	8 (21)
 Extras		( w6 nb1 b8 lb19 )		34

	Total (from 140 overs)	472 All out
Fall of wickets:
1-25  2-93  3-134  4-279  5-304  6-361  7-392  8-421  9-434  10-472  

Bowling Figures for JH Kallis XI

                  O	M	R	W
JH Kallis         23	4	71	2	
JH Kallis         25	6	86	1	
JH Kallis         18	2	63	0	
JH Kallis         23	7	82	1	
JH Kallis         22	9	56	3	
JH Kallis         16	6	46	2	
JH Kallis         8	2	25	0	
JH Kallis         4	1	16	0	

JH Kallis XI
 JH Kallis         c SR Tendulkar      b SR Tendulkar      	53 (65)
 JH Kallis         c SR Tendulkar      b SR Tendulkar      	18 (42)
 JH Kallis                      not out                	23 (40)
 JH Kallis                      not out                	1 (9)
 Extras		( w1 b4 lb9 )		14

	Total (from 26 overs)	109 - 2
Fall of wickets:
1-48  2-100  

Bowling Figures for SR Tendulkar XI

                  O	M	R	W
SR Tendulkar      7	1	33	0	
SR Tendulkar      4	0	18	0	
SR Tendulkar      5	2	9	1	
SR Tendulkar      4	1	18	0	
SR Tendulkar      3	0	8	0	
SR Tendulkar      1	0	6	0	
SR Tendulkar      2	0	4	1	

Match Drawn
Man of the match is JH Kallis
Test Two

Code:
JH Kallis XI versus SR Tendulkar XI

JH Kallis XI
 JH Kallis         c SR Tendulkar      b SR Tendulkar      	10 (30)
 JH Kallis         c SR Tendulkar      b SR Tendulkar      	86 (152)
 JH Kallis         c SR Tendulkar      b SR Tendulkar      	60 (89)
 JH Kallis         c SR Tendulkar      b SR Tendulkar      	17 (51)
 JH Kallis                    lbw      b SR Tendulkar      	184 (287)
 JH Kallis         c SR Tendulkar      b SR Tendulkar      	134 (181)
 JH Kallis         c SR Tendulkar      b SR Tendulkar      	31 (61)
 JH Kallis                      not out                	69 (104)
 JH Kallis         c SR Tendulkar      b SR Tendulkar      	5 (7)
 JH Kallis                      not out                	20 (64)
 Extras		( w13 nb3 b4 lb7 )		27

	Total (from 171 overs)	643 - 8 declared
Fall of wickets:
1-29  2-129  3-168  4-183  5-440  6-518  7-553  8-558  

Bowling Figures for SR Tendulkar XI

                  O	M	R	W
SR Tendulkar      28	6	106	0	
SR Tendulkar      26	2	99	2	
SR Tendulkar      24	4	93	0	
SR Tendulkar      25	6	81	2	
SR Tendulkar      23	4	72	2	
SR Tendulkar      22	4	88	1	
SR Tendulkar      16	2	65	0	
SR Tendulkar      3	1	11	0	
SR Tendulkar      3	2	6	1	
SR Tendulkar      1	0	11	0	

SR Tendulkar XI
 SR Tendulkar      c JH Kallis         b JH Kallis         	83 (102)
 SR Tendulkar                      c & b JH Kallis         	25 (69)
 SR Tendulkar      c JH Kallis         b JH Kallis         	184 (325)
 SR Tendulkar                 lbw      b JH Kallis         	54 (78)
 SR Tendulkar                 lbw      b JH Kallis         	12 (22)
 SR Tendulkar                   not out                	183 (330)
 SR Tendulkar                   not out                	60 (100)
 Extras		( w14 nb3 b15 lb28 )		60

	Total (from 171 overs)	661 - 5 declared
Fall of wickets:
1-109  2-110  3-205  4-239  5-538  

Bowling Figures for JH Kallis XI

                  O	M	R	W
JH Kallis         31	8	111	1	
JH Kallis         33	5	115	0	
JH Kallis         27	3	126	2	
JH Kallis         23	3	76	0	
JH Kallis         19	3	79	1	
JH Kallis         23	5	59	1	
JH Kallis         8	1	29	0	
JH Kallis         1	0	1	0	
JH Kallis         6	1	22	0	

JH Kallis XI
 JH Kallis                             b SR Tendulkar      	147 (302)
 JH Kallis                             b SR Tendulkar      	22 (34)
 JH Kallis                      not out                	196 (300)
 JH Kallis                      not out                	3 (12)
 Extras		( w3 nb2 b6 lb14 )		25

	Total (from 108 overs)	393 - 2
Fall of wickets:
1-37  2-378  

Bowling Figures for SR Tendulkar XI

                  O	M	R	W
SR Tendulkar      18	2	69	0	
SR Tendulkar      18	6	59	0	
SR Tendulkar      16	5	33	0	
SR Tendulkar      16	4	57	1	
SR Tendulkar      14	2	48	1	
SR Tendulkar      12	2	43	0	
SR Tendulkar      10	2	40	0	
SR Tendulkar      4	0	24	0	

Match Drawn
Man of the match is JH Kallis
Test Three

Code:
JH Kallis XI versus SR Tendulkar XI

JH Kallis XI
 JH Kallis         c SR Tendulkar      b SR Tendulkar      	22 (48)
 JH Kallis         c SR Tendulkar      b SR Tendulkar      	38 (55)
 JH Kallis         c SR Tendulkar      b SR Tendulkar      	162 (300)
 JH Kallis                      not out                	254 (444)
 JH Kallis                    lbw      b SR Tendulkar      	62 (99)
 JH Kallis                      not out                	37 (80)
 Extras		( w8 nb1 b3 lb21 )		33

	Total (from 171 overs)	608 - 4 declared
Fall of wickets:
1-59  2-66  3-401  4-529  

Bowling Figures for SR Tendulkar XI

                  O	M	R	W
SR Tendulkar      28	5	90	0	
SR Tendulkar      27	6	95	0	
SR Tendulkar      27	2	88	1	
SR Tendulkar      26	2	99	0	
SR Tendulkar      20	3	71	0	
SR Tendulkar      20	5	66	2	
SR Tendulkar      13	3	38	1	
SR Tendulkar      8	1	29	0	
SR Tendulkar      2	0	8	0	

SR Tendulkar XI
 SR Tendulkar      c JH Kallis         b JH Kallis         	155 (261)
 SR Tendulkar      c JH Kallis         b JH Kallis         	168 (280)
 SR Tendulkar      c JH Kallis         b JH Kallis         	36 (59)
 SR Tendulkar      c JH Kallis         b JH Kallis         	26 (46)
 SR Tendulkar      c JH Kallis         b JH Kallis         	77 (135)
 SR Tendulkar      c JH Kallis         b JH Kallis         	1 (3)
 SR Tendulkar                 lbw      b JH Kallis         	28 (50)
 SR Tendulkar                 lbw      b JH Kallis         	33 (58)
 SR Tendulkar                   not out                	50 (78)
 SR Tendulkar                   not out                	7 (8)
 Extras		( w2 nb4 b10 lb19 )		35

	Total (from 163 overs)	616 - 8 declared
Fall of wickets:
1-313  2-362  3-405  4-406  5-407  6-477  7-544  8-590  

Bowling Figures for JH Kallis XI

                  O	M	R	W
JH Kallis         29	6	102	1	
JH Kallis         26	7	87	0	
JH Kallis         17	3	57	0	
JH Kallis         25	3	88	1	
JH Kallis         21	5	81	3	
JH Kallis         22	4	90	1	
JH Kallis         14	5	38	1	
JH Kallis         9	2	44	1	

JH Kallis XI
 JH Kallis         c SR Tendulkar      b SR Tendulkar      	3 (29)
 JH Kallis         c SR Tendulkar      b SR Tendulkar      	9 (16)
 JH Kallis         c SR Tendulkar      b SR Tendulkar      	101 (133)
 JH Kallis                      not out                	192 (302)
 JH Kallis         c SR Tendulkar      b SR Tendulkar      	60 (87)
 JH Kallis                      not out                	69 (129)
 Extras		( w13 b5 lb4 )		22

	Total (from 116 overs)	456 - 4
Fall of wickets:
1-9  2-22  3-196  4-303  

Bowling Figures for SR Tendulkar XI

                  O	M	R	W
SR Tendulkar      20	4	70	1	
SR Tendulkar      18	4	76	0	
SR Tendulkar      16	3	62	2	
SR Tendulkar      17	2	78	1	
SR Tendulkar      14	2	41	0	
SR Tendulkar      11	3	31	0	
SR Tendulkar      7	1	37	0	
SR Tendulkar      7	1	27	0	
SR Tendulkar      3	0	20	0	
SR Tendulkar      3	1	5	0	

Match Drawn
Man of the match is JH Kallis
Test Four

Code:
SR Tendulkar XI versus JH Kallis XI

SR Tendulkar XI
 SR Tendulkar      c JH Kallis         b JH Kallis         	43 (84)
 SR Tendulkar      c JH Kallis         b JH Kallis         	22 (70)
 SR Tendulkar      c JH Kallis         b JH Kallis         	63 (101)
 SR Tendulkar      c JH Kallis         b JH Kallis         	11 (12)
 SR Tendulkar                          b JH Kallis         	28 (111)
 SR Tendulkar                      c & b JH Kallis         	129 (220)
 SR Tendulkar      c JH Kallis         b JH Kallis         	17 (45)
 SR Tendulkar                          b JH Kallis         	35 (67)
 SR Tendulkar                 lbw      b JH Kallis         	60 (128)
 SR Tendulkar                   not out                	55 (91)
 SR Tendulkar                   not out                	14 (37)
 Extras		( nb2 b29 lb37 )		68

	Total (from 161 overs)	545 - 9 declared
Fall of wickets:
1-76  2-78  3-101  4-196  5-220  6-275  7-347  8-444  9-485  

Bowling Figures for JH Kallis XI

                  O	M	R	W
JH Kallis         27	11	72	0	
JH Kallis         25	2	95	0	
JH Kallis         24	7	69	1	
JH Kallis         23	8	58	2	
JH Kallis         13	2	39	2	
JH Kallis         24	7	60	3	
JH Kallis         10	3	31	1	
JH Kallis         8	1	29	0	
JH Kallis         7	4	26	0	

JH Kallis XI
 JH Kallis                    lbw      b SR Tendulkar      	56 (102)
 JH Kallis         stSR Tendulkar      b SR Tendulkar      	54 (110)
 JH Kallis         c SR Tendulkar      b SR Tendulkar      	70 (83)
 JH Kallis                         c & b SR Tendulkar      	14 (35)
 JH Kallis         c SR Tendulkar      b SR Tendulkar      	279 (458)
 JH Kallis         c SR Tendulkar      b SR Tendulkar      	52 (85)
 JH Kallis         c SR Tendulkar      b SR Tendulkar      	26 (44)
 JH Kallis         c SR Tendulkar      b SR Tendulkar      	11 (29)
 JH Kallis         c SR Tendulkar      b SR Tendulkar      	47 (64)
 JH Kallis                             b SR Tendulkar      	95 (131)
 JH Kallis                      not out                	36 (54)
 Extras		( w15 nb6 b10 lb33 )		64

	Total (from 200 overs)	804 All out
Fall of wickets:
1-118  2-137  3-163  4-232  5-373  6-410  7-433  8-520  9-698  10-804  

Bowling Figures for SR Tendulkar XI

                  O	M	R	W
SR Tendulkar      34	9	100	2	
SR Tendulkar      32	4	128	0	
SR Tendulkar      30	3	128	3	
SR Tendulkar      29	3	87	2	
SR Tendulkar      26	7	92	0	
SR Tendulkar      23	3	87	2	
SR Tendulkar      14	0	82	0	
SR Tendulkar      8	1	47	1	
SR Tendulkar      3	0	10	0	

SR Tendulkar XI
 SR Tendulkar                   not out                	161 (253)
 SR Tendulkar                 lbw      b JH Kallis         	34 (104)
 SR Tendulkar                   not out                	74 (177)
 Extras		( w2 nb1 b6 lb9 )		18

	Total (from 89 overs)	287 - 1
Fall of wickets:
1-105  

Bowling Figures for JH Kallis XI

                  O	M	R	W
JH Kallis         16	3	49	1	
JH Kallis         18	4	51	0	
JH Kallis         17	5	53	0	
JH Kallis         8	1	20	0	
JH Kallis         9	0	39	0	
JH Kallis         13	5	39	0	
JH Kallis         8	1	21	0	

Match Drawn
Man of the match is JH Kallis
Test Five

Code:
JH Kallis XI versus SR Tendulkar XI

JH Kallis XI
 JH Kallis         c SR Tendulkar      b SR Tendulkar      	92 (141)
 JH Kallis                         c & b SR Tendulkar      	8 (27)
 JH Kallis                             b SR Tendulkar      	62 (103)
 JH Kallis                    lbw      b SR Tendulkar      	20 (21)
 JH Kallis         c SR Tendulkar      b SR Tendulkar      	41 (104)
 JH Kallis                      not out                	121 (231)
 JH Kallis                             b SR Tendulkar      	21 (31)
 JH Kallis         c SR Tendulkar      b SR Tendulkar      	7 (18)
 JH Kallis                      not out                	57 (122)
 Extras		( w11 nb2 b7 lb17 )		37

	Total (from 133 overs)	466 - 7 declared
Fall of wickets:
1-34  2-167  3-167  4-206  5-262  6-297  7-321  

Bowling Figures for SR Tendulkar XI

                  O	M	R	W
SR Tendulkar      24	5	97	2	
SR Tendulkar      19	5	63	1	
SR Tendulkar      20	5	51	1	
SR Tendulkar      17	1	60	1	
SR Tendulkar      15	5	26	0	
SR Tendulkar      16	3	65	1	
SR Tendulkar      11	1	31	0	
SR Tendulkar      6	1	21	0	
SR Tendulkar      5	0	28	1	

SR Tendulkar XI
 SR Tendulkar      c JH Kallis         b JH Kallis         	11 (21)
 SR Tendulkar                 lbw      b JH Kallis         	26 (47)
 SR Tendulkar      c JH Kallis         b JH Kallis         	8 (23)
 SR Tendulkar                 lbw      b JH Kallis         	18 (25)
 SR Tendulkar      c JH Kallis         b JH Kallis         	172 (304)
 SR Tendulkar      c JH Kallis         b JH Kallis         	6 (5)
 SR Tendulkar      c JH Kallis         b JH Kallis         	0 (10)
 SR Tendulkar      c JH Kallis         b JH Kallis         	19 (32)
 SR Tendulkar      c JH Kallis         b JH Kallis         	53 (102)
 SR Tendulkar      c JH Kallis         b JH Kallis         	29 (55)
 SR Tendulkar                   not out                	44 (65)
 Extras		( w3 nb1 b6 lb5 )		15

	Total (from 115 overs)	401 All out
Fall of wickets:
1-20  2-45  3-45  4-75  5-81  6-82  7-117  8-242  9-314  10-401  

Bowling Figures for JH Kallis XI

                  O	M	R	W
JH Kallis         21	7	61	3	
JH Kallis         23	3	78	1	
JH Kallis         18	4	70	2	
JH Kallis         11	2	52	2	
JH Kallis         17	1	53	1	
JH Kallis         12	4	29	1	
JH Kallis         1	0	4	0	
JH Kallis         11	4	43	0	

JH Kallis XI
 JH Kallis                             b SR Tendulkar      	33 (83)
 JH Kallis         c SR Tendulkar      b SR Tendulkar      	32 (67)
 JH Kallis         c SR Tendulkar      b SR Tendulkar      	86 (131)
 JH Kallis                      not out                	107 (155)
 JH Kallis         c SR Tendulkar      b SR Tendulkar      	31 (39)
 JH Kallis         c SR Tendulkar      b SR Tendulkar      	24 (41)
 JH Kallis                      not out                	0 (0)
 Extras		( w5 nb1 b5 lb9 )		20

	Total (from 86 overs)	333 - 5 declared
Fall of wickets:
1-68  2-91  3-240  4-287  5-333  

Bowling Figures for SR Tendulkar XI

                  O	M	R	W
SR Tendulkar      15	1	64	1	
SR Tendulkar      14	2	47	0	
SR Tendulkar      13	1	52	2	
SR Tendulkar      13	3	46	1	
SR Tendulkar      9	1	32	0	
SR Tendulkar      8	0	34	0	
SR Tendulkar      5	0	15	0	
SR Tendulkar      3	0	14	1	
SR Tendulkar      3	0	8	0	
SR Tendulkar      3	1	7	0	

SR Tendulkar XI
 SR Tendulkar                 lbw      b JH Kallis         	136 (250)
 SR Tendulkar                          b JH Kallis         	5 (6)
 SR Tendulkar                   not out                	209 (300)
 SR Tendulkar                   not out                	20 (54)
 Extras		( w4 nb2 b10 lb15 )		31

	Total (from 102 overs)	401 - 2
Fall of wickets:
1-7  2-329  

Bowling Figures for JH Kallis XI

                  O	M	R	W
JH Kallis         18	3	64	1	
JH Kallis         19	6	55	1	
JH Kallis         16	3	73	0	
JH Kallis         9	1	41	0	
JH Kallis         11	1	37	0	
JH Kallis         13	3	63	0	
JH Kallis         12	4	34	0	
JH Kallis         3	1	9	0	

SR Tendulkar XI won by 8 wickets
Man of the match is SR Tendulkar
Fairly predictable, except that last Test which just shows up the VC4 code, really :laugh:

May do ODIs in a moment...
 

bond21

Banned
Erm... no, I rate that considerably lower than the ability to score against better bowling.

At a time of generally good bowling Tendulkar was superlative, Kallis good. This is far more important than one's ability to bash rubbish bowling - not that Tendulkar at the time he was a good player lost anything in comparison to Kallis there.

I really wish people would stop, meanwhile, bringing the Tendulkar of 2003 onwards into any equation. Tendulkar was no longer the player he had been - of course he couldn't cash-in on the rubbish bowling the way some have.
youre an absolute hypocrite.

You say discard Tendulkar from 2003 onwards, and Gilly sucks because you THINK he hasnt played well the last 4 years.

1. Gilchrist is a keeper, tendulkar is useless in the field, he cant bowl. I hope to god Tendulkar is a better batsman than Gilchrist because gilchrist is a keeper.

And the topic is whos the better player, not whos the better batsman.

Kallis is a better bowler, Kallis is a more reliable batsman, Kallis is a great slips fielder.
 

bond21

Banned
But Sachin has done what Kallis has done - in a harder era. In any case, these threads make me LOL as they pretty much pick the flavor of the month (see Hayden vs. Lara thread).

Flavour of the month? What have you been only watching cricket for the past month?

Or were u living under a rock when Hayden was averaging over 100 and scoring 100 in nearly every single innings around 2003 and beating England into the ground.
 
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Jamee999

Hall of Fame Member
ODI One

Code:
SR Tendulkar XI versus JH Kallis XI

SR Tendulkar XI
 SR Tendulkar                   not out                	90 (148)
 SR Tendulkar                   run out                	6 (12)
 SR Tendulkar      c JH Kallis         b JH Kallis         	18 (40)
 SR Tendulkar      c JH Kallis         b JH Kallis         	2 (6)
 SR Tendulkar      c JH Kallis         b JH Kallis         	16 (31)
 SR Tendulkar                          b JH Kallis         	15 (32)
 SR Tendulkar                   not out                	28 (31)
 Extras		( b4 lb11 )		15

	Total (from 50 overs)	190 - 5
Fall of wickets:
1-8  2-73  3-84  4-123  5-151  

Bowling Figures for JH Kallis XI

                  O	M	R	W
JH Kallis         9	2	27	1	
JH Kallis         10	2	48	0	
JH Kallis         10	4	34	0	
JH Kallis         10	2	28	1	
JH Kallis         8	1	31	1	
JH Kallis         3	1	7	1	

JH Kallis XI
 JH Kallis         c SR Tendulkar      b SR Tendulkar      	17 (28)
 JH Kallis                    lbw      b SR Tendulkar      	35 (63)
 JH Kallis                      not out                	77 (108)
 JH Kallis         c SR Tendulkar      b SR Tendulkar      	13 (20)
 JH Kallis         c SR Tendulkar      b SR Tendulkar      	24 (45)
 JH Kallis                      not out                	11 (13)
 Extras		( w5 lb9 )		14

	Total (from 47 overs)	191 - 4
Fall of wickets:
1-33  2-75  3-108  4-169  

Bowling Figures for SR Tendulkar XI

                  O	M	R	W
SR Tendulkar      6	3	12	1	
SR Tendulkar      6	1	26	0	
SR Tendulkar      9	1	33	1	
SR Tendulkar      9	1	23	1	
SR Tendulkar      6	1	33	0	
SR Tendulkar      2	0	6	1	
SR Tendulkar      1	0	7	0	
SR Tendulkar      1	0	4	0	
SR Tendulkar      4	0	21	0	
SR Tendulkar      2	0	17	0	

JH Kallis XI won by 6 wickets
Man of the match is JH Kallis
ODI Two

Code:
SR Tendulkar XI versus JH Kallis XI

SR Tendulkar XI
 SR Tendulkar      c JH Kallis         b JH Kallis         	25 (22)
 SR Tendulkar      c JH Kallis         b JH Kallis         	22 (38)
 SR Tendulkar              hit wkt     b JH Kallis         	45 (44)
 SR Tendulkar                 lbw      b JH Kallis         	10 (10)
 SR Tendulkar      c JH Kallis         b JH Kallis         	23 (26)
 SR Tendulkar                   not out                	71 (84)
 SR Tendulkar                   not out                	63 (76)
 Extras		( w4 lb9 )		13

	Total (from 50 overs)	272 - 5
Fall of wickets:
1-40  2-60  3-70  4-128  5-131  

Bowling Figures for JH Kallis XI

                  O	M	R	W
JH Kallis         7	0	45	0	
JH Kallis         10	1	60	0	
JH Kallis         5	0	37	1	
JH Kallis         6	2	21	2	
JH Kallis         10	1	45	0	
JH Kallis         7	1	31	1	
JH Kallis         2	0	10	0	
JH Kallis         1	0	6	1	
JH Kallis         2	0	8	0	

JH Kallis XI
 JH Kallis         c SR Tendulkar      b SR Tendulkar      	77 (93)
 JH Kallis                             b SR Tendulkar      	23 (48)
 JH Kallis                             b SR Tendulkar      	0 (3)
 JH Kallis         c SR Tendulkar      b SR Tendulkar      	12 (28)
 JH Kallis         c SR Tendulkar      b SR Tendulkar      	32 (52)
 JH Kallis                         c & b SR Tendulkar      	41 (64)
 JH Kallis                      not out                	8 (10)
 JH Kallis                      not out                	2 (2)
 Extras		( w5 nb1 )		6

	Total (from 50 overs)	201 - 6
Fall of wickets:
1-77  2-79  3-107  4-125  5-187  6-199  

Bowling Figures for SR Tendulkar XI

                  O	M	R	W
SR Tendulkar      9	2	25	1	
SR Tendulkar      6	1	26	1	
SR Tendulkar      5	0	44	0	
SR Tendulkar      10	2	31	2	
SR Tendulkar      10	2	36	1	
SR Tendulkar      5	1	23	0	
SR Tendulkar      5	1	16	1	

SR Tendulkar XI won by 71 runs
Man of the match is SR Tendulkar
ODI Three

Code:
SR Tendulkar XI versus JH Kallis XI

SR Tendulkar XI
 SR Tendulkar      c JH Kallis         b JH Kallis         	80 (93)
 SR Tendulkar                 lbw      b JH Kallis         	48 (73)
 SR Tendulkar      c JH Kallis         b JH Kallis         	38 (50)
 SR Tendulkar                   not out                	42 (54)
 SR Tendulkar                   not out                	21 (30)
 Extras		( w4 lb9 )		13

	Total (from 50 overs)	242 - 3
Fall of wickets:
1-117  2-149  3-200  

Bowling Figures for JH Kallis XI

                  O	M	R	W
JH Kallis         10	1	59	0	
JH Kallis         9	2	29	1	
JH Kallis         5	1	21	0	
JH Kallis         7	1	27	0	
JH Kallis         9	1	38	2	
JH Kallis         5	0	37	0	
JH Kallis         5	0	22	0	

JH Kallis XI
 JH Kallis         c SR Tendulkar      b SR Tendulkar      	8 (8)
 JH Kallis                      not out                	101 (108)
 JH Kallis         stSR Tendulkar      b SR Tendulkar      	0 (5)
 JH Kallis                      not out                	118 (107)
 Extras		( w2 b8 lb6 )		16

	Total (from 38 overs)	243 - 2
Fall of wickets:
1-9  2-15  

Bowling Figures for SR Tendulkar XI

                  O	M	R	W
SR Tendulkar      8	0	58	0	
SR Tendulkar      6	1	29	2	
SR Tendulkar      8	1	52	0	
SR Tendulkar      6	1	30	0	
SR Tendulkar      10	0	60	0	

JH Kallis XI won by 8 wickets
Man of the match is JH Kallis
ODI Four

Code:
SR Tendulkar XI versus JH Kallis XI

SR Tendulkar XI
 SR Tendulkar                   run out                	58 (44)
 SR Tendulkar      c JH Kallis         b JH Kallis         	32 (26)
 SR Tendulkar      c JH Kallis         b JH Kallis         	12 (12)
 SR Tendulkar                 lbw      b JH Kallis         	58 (52)
 SR Tendulkar      c JH Kallis         b JH Kallis         	2 (12)
 SR Tendulkar      c JH Kallis         b JH Kallis         	0 (1)
 SR Tendulkar                   not out                	72 (99)
 SR Tendulkar                   not out                	49 (54)
 Extras		( w9 nb2 b9 )		20

	Total (from 50 overs)	303 - 6
Fall of wickets:
1-64  2-104  3-105  4-117  5-117  6-220  

Bowling Figures for JH Kallis XI

                  O	M	R	W
JH Kallis         10	1	59	0	
JH Kallis         10	1	69	1	
JH Kallis         10	1	65	0	
JH Kallis         10	0	58	3	
JH Kallis         10	0	43	1	

JH Kallis XI
 JH Kallis                             b SR Tendulkar      	67 (63)
 JH Kallis         c SR Tendulkar      b SR Tendulkar      	18 (36)
 JH Kallis                      not out                	92 (102)
 JH Kallis         c SR Tendulkar      b SR Tendulkar      	55 (55)
 JH Kallis         c SR Tendulkar      b SR Tendulkar      	11 (11)
 JH Kallis         stSR Tendulkar      b SR Tendulkar      	24 (20)
 JH Kallis                      not out                	19 (13)
 Extras		( nb3 b5 lb8 )		16

	Total (from 50 overs)	302 - 5
Fall of wickets:
1-72  2-110  3-208  4-222  5-271  

Bowling Figures for SR Tendulkar XI

                  O	M	R	W
SR Tendulkar      9	0	63	1	
SR Tendulkar      10	1	57	2	
SR Tendulkar      5	1	39	0	
SR Tendulkar      9	1	44	1	
SR Tendulkar      3	1	14	0	
SR Tendulkar      5	2	12	1	
SR Tendulkar      1	0	6	0	
SR Tendulkar      2	1	4	0	
SR Tendulkar      1	0	8	0	
SR Tendulkar      5	1	42	0	

SR Tendulkar XI won by 1 runs
Man of the match is JH Kallis
ODI Five

Code:
SR Tendulkar XI versus JH Kallis XI

SR Tendulkar XI
 SR Tendulkar                   run out                	11 (10)
 SR Tendulkar      c JH Kallis         b JH Kallis         	10 (29)
 SR Tendulkar      c JH Kallis         b JH Kallis         	19 (21)
 SR Tendulkar      c JH Kallis         b JH Kallis         	52 (77)
 SR Tendulkar                          b JH Kallis         	25 (50)
 SR Tendulkar                   not out                	52 (78)
 SR Tendulkar                   not out                	13 (35)
 Extras		( w5 lb5 )		10

	Total (from 50 overs)	192 - 5
Fall of wickets:
1-11  2-36  3-47  4-102  5-140  

Bowling Figures for JH Kallis XI

                  O	M	R	W
JH Kallis         5	1	22	0	
JH Kallis         10	0	48	0	
JH Kallis         7	1	31	2	
JH Kallis         8	3	31	0	
JH Kallis         10	4	25	1	
JH Kallis         6	2	23	0	
JH Kallis         1	0	3	0	
JH Kallis         3	1	4	1	

JH Kallis XI
 JH Kallis                      run out                	0 (5)
 JH Kallis                    lbw      b SR Tendulkar      	0 (5)
 JH Kallis                      not out                	107 (108)
 JH Kallis         c SR Tendulkar      b SR Tendulkar      	36 (43)
 JH Kallis         c SR Tendulkar      b SR Tendulkar      	22 (56)
 JH Kallis                      not out                	19 (24)
 Extras		( nb1 lb10 )		11

	Total (from 41 overs)	195 - 4
Fall of wickets:
1-0  2-6  3-90  4-147  

Bowling Figures for SR Tendulkar XI

                  O	M	R	W
SR Tendulkar      4	0	28	0	
SR Tendulkar      6	0	43	1	
SR Tendulkar      8	3	29	0	
SR Tendulkar      5	1	13	1	
SR Tendulkar      4	1	17	0	
SR Tendulkar      3	0	12	0	
SR Tendulkar      4	0	11	0	
SR Tendulkar      2	0	5	1	
SR Tendulkar      4	0	27	0	

JH Kallis XI won by 6 wickets
Man of the match is JH Kallis
3-2 to JH Kallis

Take from that what you will :p
 

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
Flavour of the month? What have you been only watching cricket for the past month?

Or were u living under a rock when Hayden was averaging over 100 and scoring 100 in nearly every single innings around 2003 and beating England into the ground.

I dont really take american's views into account because the only place they can see cricket is on youtube.
Haha. OK. All the power to you.
 

Anil

Hall of Fame Member
tendulkar a better batsman overall in both versions of the game, on current form, kallis much better as test batsman and tendulkar better at one dayers...
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Then by the same token, stop giving him extra credit for starting early. The guy was in his mid-20s at the start of the millennium.
I'm not actually doing that. I'm giving someone credit for a period of time. I couldn't care less what age they start nor finish.
I love how all these debates seem to connect your arguments together. Why Richards' record is demeaned because he kept playing on isn't factored the same way here is also a mystery. Richards was averaging 60, too against great bowling. Yet it is unfathomable to you that he could be 2nd greatest batsman of all time. Sorry to link these up and digress, it just seems strangely weird and inconsistent, not to mention biased.
No two cases are the same.
I am not saying you said Ponting > Dravid. BUT for the wider audience it's something that gets acknowledged with respect these days. You also consider it a worthy comparison that Dravid could be equal to Tendulkar, if not better...so why is it when Punter's name comes around that his record in the 90s is used to denigrate his record, when it is good enough to compare him favourably to Dravid, but not Sachin?
It's certainly not something that gets acknowledged - maybe it might do in Australia but it certainly doesn't universally - that Ponting is superior to Dravid. It's absurd to suggest there's an unequivocal winner, in fact.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
youre an absolute hypocrite.
No, I'm not, I don't do hypocrisy.
You say discard Tendulkar from 2003 onwards
If you read properly, do I say "discard" Tendulkar's innings from 2003 onwards? No.
and Gilly sucks because you THINK he hasnt played well the last 4 years.
I don't think, I know.
1. Gilchrist is a keeper, tendulkar is useless in the field, he cant bowl. I hope to god Tendulkar is a better batsman than Gilchrist because gilchrist is a keeper.
There's no rule that being a wicketkeeper affects your ability with the bat.
And the topic is whos the better player, not whos the better batsman.
No, it's not. There's nothing the two have in common other than batting; ergo, there's no point in a comparison.
Kallis is a better bowler, Kallis is a more reliable batsman, Kallis is a great slips fielder.
Kallis is a better batsman these days; he was not between 1997 and 2002.
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
I'm not actually doing that. I'm giving someone credit for a period of time. I couldn't care less what age they start nor finish.
So why should Tendulkar who had his form earlier in his career be considered over Kallis who has his success later in his career? Especially when Tendulkar's drop in form isn't really towards the end of his career at all.

No two cases are the same.
Sure, but these many coincidences are beginning to poke holes through those arguments.

It's certainly not something that gets acknowledged - maybe it might do in Australia but it certainly doesn't universally - that Ponting is superior to Dravid. It's absurd to suggest there's an unequivocal winner, in fact.
I'd actually venture to say that Ponting is considered better than Dravid more often than not. But maybe I've been looking at too many polls here ;).
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
So why should Tendulkar who had his form earlier in his career be considered over Kallis who has his success later in his career? Especially when Tendulkar's drop in form isn't really towards the end of his career at all.
I've already answered this question many times. Stage of career has nothing at all to do with anything.

You'd have to be a complete fool, I make no apologies for saying it, to suggest Tendulkar isn't a lesser player since 2003 than he was 1990-2002. You also have to be a fool to suggest he should have carried-on with his 1990-2002 form indefiniately, and to blame him for declining and hence failing to cash-in on the mostly crap bowling of the time.
Sure, but these many coincidences are beginning to poke holes through those arguments.
No, you're trying to find holes by seeing what you want to see and attempting to apply it to what I've said when as far as I - the person putting forward the arguments - is concerned, it is irrelevant.
 
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Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
I've already answered this question many times. Stage of career has nothing at all to do with anything.

You'd have to be a complete fool, I make no apologies for saying it, to suggest Tendulkar isn't a lesser player since 2003 than he was 1990-2002. You also have to be a fool to suggest he should have carried-on with his 1990-2002 form indefiniately, and to blame him for declining and hence failing to cash-in on the mostly crap bowling of the time.
LOL, that's absolutely absurd. If I, or anyone, expects to give Tendulkar the same credit for being a great batsman in a supposedly harder era, I will also expect him to do well in an easier one. That's just logical. If Tendulkar were averaging anything near the others, but just not as close as them, then that's something entirely different. Averaging 49, whereas guys like Ponting and Kallis are 71 and 66 respectively, IS something totally different.

No one is saying Tendulkar ISN'T a lesser played since 2003 because that's the whole point... he is. And when the conditions also suit scoring runs even more, then that damns his trough even more.

Tendulkar is no longer in a class of his own because of this because he really doesn't have much of an excuse for that kind of drop.

What this means is:

1) Scoring runs in this era, whilst it maybe easier, is still a very difficult thing to do. Even if you wish to take of a full 10 points off Ponting, he is still averaging a monster amount of runs.

2) Tendulkar cannot be excused in these comparisons for scoring this much lower. Sure, no one can take away his legacy, but at the same time he has fallen from grace and not at the end of his career or to any such notion that would suggest he is at the end of it or incapable. He just hasn't been good enough.

No, you're trying to find holes by seeing what you want to see and attempting to apply it to what I've said when as far as I - the person putting forward the arguments - is concerned, it is irrelevant.
I don't really agree with much you say so I can't really admit to caring if you see a correlation here or not. If you did, you wouldn't be propagating as you have, you'd change your ways. The fact that you're blind to your ways is the frustrating part.
 
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PhoenixFire

International Coach
You have to remember that Sachin had been playing international cricket since he was 16/17, so his body and reflexes ect have probably aged more than a normal 34 year old.
 

haroon510

International 12th Man
sachin dominates the opposition bowlers... he is aggrassive and bowlers are intimidated of Aggrassive batsman.. kallis well play steady and consistantly good but his innings lack entertainment at least for me..
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
You have to remember that Sachin had been playing international cricket since he was 16/17, so his body and reflexes ect have probably aged more than a normal 34 year old.
Yeah but to say he'd had it since he was 27 or 29 is really pushing it. Actually, he is probably in his best period since that 'era'.
 

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