Mohammad Yousuf the best pakistani batsmen ever?

[Richard]

You don't have to take account of everything in history to judge what's happening today. If you want to judge what happened in 1934, look at 1934. If you want to judge 2003, look at 2003.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

personally i couldn't be bothered with it

You're a fast learner and right to ignore this meaningless babble, I'm back inside tomorrow, can't wait.

 

[White Lightning]

You don't have to take account of everything in history to judge what's happening today. If you want to judge what happened in 1934, look at 1934. If you want to judge 2003, look at 2003.

yeah but if your taking into account 2003 are you taking into account everything.

unless you watch every test, and every odi, then you can't start critisicing a player because the fieldsmen aren't taking advantages of chances, when the exact same thing happens to someone else...

and you can't be relying off other reports as they can be innacurate, and then again each person sets their own standards to judge from. what one person sees as an unreasonable chance another might consider it should've been taken.

 

[Richard]

yeah but if your taking into account 2003 are you taking into account everything.

unless you watch every test, and every odi, then you can't start critisicing a player because the fieldsmen aren't taking advantages of chances, when the exact same thing happens to someone else...

I criticise everyone equally for giving chances, regardless of whether or not the fielder takes them. I also, obviously, criticise a fielder if he fails to take a chance.

and you can't be relying off other reports as they can be innacurate, and then again each person sets their own standards to judge from. what one person sees as an unreasonable chance another might consider it should've been taken.

Anyone with a reasonable mind can tell what should and should not have been taken. Who offers a realistic description of a chance and who doesn't can be learned by reading the writings of different people.

 

[Days of Grace]

Obviously - the point is cricket would be far better if they were all taken.

.

Um, not it would NOT, because that is one of the beauties of the game, fantastic catches are taken, and absolute sitters are bombed. Imagine having no suspense at all when the ball is hit straight up in the air, because you know the fielder will take the catch. FFS, man, get a grip.

 

[Ikki]

Richard, will you set aside the first-chance rubbish...ever?

 

[Perm]

He was also talking about the highest number of runs in a calender year which you ignored completely. The fact even the likes of Dravid, Kallis and other good players have never come close to scoring 1700 in a year means it was a huge effort from M. Yousuf

The point he was implying was that since Mohammad Yousuf scored that many runs in a calender year, then he must be the best, which IMO is a poor way of looking at it.

Nobody here is trying to deny that the record set by Mohammad Yousuf was a huge effort, it would be foolish to think otherwise. But having one year that is significantly more profilic proves very little, other than the fact he was in very good form.

 

[Unattainableguy]

I agree with you then.

 

[Richard]

Richard, will you set aside the first-chance rubbish...ever?

I always set aside rubbish - hence I won't ever set aside this first-chance stuff, no.

 

[Richard]

Um, not it would NOT, because that is one of the beauties of the game, fantastic catches are taken, and absolute sitters are bombed. Imagine having no suspense at all when the ball is hit straight up in the air, because you know the fielder will take the catch. FFS, man, get a grip.

Sitters being bombed is NOT one of the beauties of the game, it's probably the worst thing about it. Sure, fantastic catches being taken is brilliant, but one of the reasons it's brilliant is because it's rare.

You always expect something that goes up with someone under it is going to be taken anyway - knowing for certain would make little difference.

I'll tell you what, too - everyone who's ever played the game in any serious capacity would be delighted if there was some way to ensure every catch was taken, because virtually everyone you hear talk about it will tell you there's no worse feeling in cricket than dropping a catch. So even batsmen would be ecstatic to get rid of 'em.

 

[White Lightning]

just out of interest richard,

if you are going to look down on a player for giving chances that's fair enough.

but surely you can't differentiate between 2 player's who have made shots with neither having any control....

1 - Steve Waugh gets a fullish ball he tried to whip away, gets a leading edge and it goes straight over his head and straight over the slips for 4. very streaky and absolutely no control over where it went.

2 - Mark Waugh gets a thick outside edge that his gone a metre to the right of 3rd slip, he gets a good chunk of it but drops it. they run one. very streaky and absolutely no control over where it went.

so you would consider anything mark waugh does afterwards to be superflous (sp??)... whilst Steve waugh goes on his merry way.

but both batsman have played shots over which neither had any control and steve waugh shot could just have easily gone to a fieldsmen (and possibly dropped) as it did go for 4....

you can't retain some elements of luck when considering the qualities of a batsman, and then not retain some others as that is just going to create some huge inconsistencies....

 

[haroon510]

Haha, what? By your logic Phil Jaques is the best Test opener ever, because he just scored a century. Absolutely ridiculous way of thinking, and the fact he acheived that feat recently could be held against him because he didn't face a top attack. Whenever he has come up against tough opposition he has generally faulted, his record against South Africa and Australia is evidence of this.

what i was imploying there was that it isn't a bad idea to speculate about his future considering his recent form..

i don't agree that yousuf faced weaker side to make those runs.. he scored double handred in lords against.. hoggard, harmison and other top England bowlers when other pakistani batsman were failing.. not to forget in bouncy pitches..he faced murali in SL tour... and it comes to the mater of "if" if u want to say that his score might have been different if he was to face Aus and SA bowling attack..

 

[haroon510]

one more thing to consider is that he has played under the shadow of Inzi most of his career... now that inzi has gone.. there is more responsibility on him.. this again goes to my point that if he plays like this another couple of years then he should be considered in the best player list.

 

[Ikki]

Yousuf is one of the world's best as it stands. But whether he is the greatest Pakistan batsman will need more time to discern and maybe his fans should wait a while before asking this kind of question.

 

[Richard]

just out of interest richard,

if you are going to look down on a player for giving chances that's fair enough.

but surely you can't differentiate between 2 player's who have made shots with neither having any control....

1 - Steve Waugh gets a fullish ball he tried to whip away, gets a leading edge and it goes straight over his head and straight over the slips for 4. very streaky and absolutely no control over where it went.

2 - Mark Waugh gets a thick outside edge that his gone a metre to the right of 3rd slip, he gets a good chunk of it but drops it. they run one. very streaky and absolutely no control over where it went.

so you would consider anything mark waugh does afterwards to be superflous (sp??)... whilst Steve waugh goes on his merry way.

but both batsman have played shots over which neither had any control and steve waugh shot could just have easily gone to a fieldsmen (and possibly dropped) as it did go for 4....

you can't retain some elements of luck when considering the qualities of a batsman, and then not retain some others as that is just going to create some huge inconsistencies....

Completely depends on whether "a good chunk" is a finger or three or two hands. If the former, it's obviously not something that's going to be caught, if the latter it obviously should be caught.

Fact is, if you try to take uncontrolled shots as "should have been the end of the innings" no-one's ever going to score many runs. Chances are simple - once it is something a fielder should catch, you expect him to catch it (and likewise you expect an Umpire to give out something that is out). And you expect the innings to end there. It's utterly inconsistent to, bascially, credit the batsman for not giving a chance when he has given one, just because the fielder happens to have dropped it.

Obviously you're never going to take luck out of cricket or even come close. But there's a substantial difference between something that's edged just wide of the stumps, just over a fielder, just short of a fielder, etc. and something that's dropped. Because something that's just short of a fielder is NEVER going to be out. Something that's into a fielders hands should ALWAYS be out.

 

[Ikki]

Ridiculous, just ridiculous. What about the number of times in an innings where a batsman is lucky that a fielder misfielded a ball on the boundary and let in a 4/6? I guess we should start lowering averages based on that too?

The fact of the matter is it takes a different talent to forget a let-off and go on strongly and play a great innings. Some guys let it disturb their confidence too much and end up getting out not much longer after. If a batsman is dropped on a 10 and goes to make 150 I would really feel stupid trying to say he didn't deserve his 150.

 

[Richard]

Ridiculous, just ridiculous. What about the number of times in an innings where a batsman is lucky that a fielder misfielded a ball on the boundary and let in a 4/6? I guess we should start lowering averages based on that too?

If you can really be arsed with doing such things, it'd be interesting, but I'd love to meet the person who could.

The fact of the matter is it takes a different talent to forget a let-off and go on strongly and play a great innings. Some guys let it disturb their confidence too much and end up getting out not much longer after.

Rubbish. People might get out soon after of times, indeed, but it's far more likely to have been to do with the same thing that caused them to give the missed chance ITFP than worrying about being dropped.

If a batsman is dropped on a 10 and goes to make 150 I would really feel stupid trying to say he didn't deserve his 150.

I've never once said someone didn't play well to get the 140 he got. Nonetheless, the fact is he would not normally have had the opportunity to do so.

 

[Ikki]

If you can really be arsed with doing such things, it'd be interesting, but I'd love to meet the person who could.

Rubbish. People might get out soon after of times, indeed, but it's far more likely to have been to do with the same thing that caused them to give the missed chance ITFP than worrying about being dropped.

I've never once said someone didn't play well to get the 140 he got. Nonetheless, the fact is he would not normally have had the opportunity to do so.

The fact is that it IS normal to get dropped catches. It happens. Nothing strange about it.

Really, mate, sometimes I feel you've never picked up a bat or a ball. Your theories or arguments are not only tedious they're very silly. I feel that you love the sport so much you go looking for such fine points that you tend to miss out the bigger picture. Sorry, if this is patronising.

 

[BhupinderSingh]

People call Mo Yo a FTB but they seem to forget that Zaheer was an even greater FTB, even Imran said that he had never seen a batsman more mentally fragile then Zaheer and he was suspect to quick stuff aswell as indicated by his poor record against WI.

How could someone who says that he loved playing in bowling friendly conditions of England & has an excellent record in County Cricket be a FTB? Yes,he almost always had problems facing WI pace attack but which Pakistani batsmen in those days faced them with some confidence apart from Waseem Raja?

 

[Engle]

Majid Khan avg 41+ vs WIndies

Re catches and stuff, ultimately that all evens out if they've played enough Tests.

Cricketers need to have something to remember them by and in the case of MoYo, he'll be remembered for that banner year overtaking the great Viv's long-standing record.

I'd place MoYo amongst the top 3 Pak batsmen and ahead of Zed