***Official*** New Zealand in South Africa

[gettingbetter]

Well down on his Test Stats.

Amla averages less then 30 against 4 of the 5 countries he's played.

McKenzie doesn't fare too much better.

 

[Perm]

McKenzie doesn't fare too much better.

McKenzie is a better batsman than Amla.

 

[gettingbetter]

McKenzie is a better batsman than Amla.

He could be, but Amla has the better FC record and he hasn't played as many Tests as McKenzie, so a comaprison on that account cannot be made all that accurately.

 

[Perm]

He could be, but Amla has the better FC record and he hasn't played as many Tests as McKenzie, so a comaprison on that account cannot be made all that accurately.

No, not on numbers it can't be.

 

[Prince EWS]

I'm completely dumfounded as to how Amla scores runs in first class cricket, especially given how good South Africa's depth in seam bowlers is. I really don't get it. I'm quite prepared to say he is completely dire as a batsman though, regardless of that. Anyone who has seen him bat in a test will know why.

 

[Perm]

Massive knock from McKenzie, 186. Still pushing for a Test spot.

 

[gettingbetter]

No, not on numbers it can't be.

Then what, please enlighten me.

I'm completely dumfounded as to how Amla scores runs in first class cricket, especially given how good South Africa's depth in seam bowlers is. I really don't get it. I'm quite prepared to say he is completely dire as a batsman though, regardless of that. Anyone who has seen him bat in a test will know why.

He isn't as bad as many people say he is - especially technqiue fanatics. I do admit that his time is running out though him batting at number 3 is bemusing.

McKenzie only scored 2 tons in 41 Tests and they were against a Sri Lankan attack sans Vass and Murali and against a NZ attack with players I haven't even heard of before Walmsley? Walker? No Vettori, Bond, Cairns or Oram.

The likes of McKenzie, Rudolph and Dippenaar have been out-batted by Amla in the last 3-5 years and his selection in the Test team is justified - maintainence is another issue.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

Then what, please enlighten me.

If you exclude tests against Bangladesh, days on which the wind was blowing a north-easterly at exactly 11 knots and runs scored during a minute with the number two in it, as I believe all test stats should be presented then it may or may not be possible to prove that Fanie de Villiers is the best South African batsman of all time.

 

[Richard]

Which is why, regardless of how much you post, it is extremely hard to respect you. Anyone with 44,000 posts on here would get a lot of attention. When that person then takes some of the most ignorant viewpoints out of the hundreds of thousands of members on this site, you dare not complain if you get some more negative attention throughout the forum, in here, or in OT.

I don't care if it's great activity with a lot of posts for lots of threads. Every thread I arrive at in Cricket Chat lately is overshadowed with the same arguements that can never possibly lead anywhere when you don't stand down. And I'm sick of it.

I hear what you're saying Nath, and I'll do my best to nip such things in the bud wherever I can.

I will not, however, accept - ever - that it's ignorant to believe Bangladesh are not Test-class. Nor that bowling since 2001\02 has been almost universally crap. Nor several other of these recurring matters which, sadly, crop-up with great regularity.

 

[Richard]

if McKenzie (and even Dippenaar) aren't better cricketers then Amla I'll eat which ever forum members turds for a month.

Dippenaar I doubt it TBH, he strikes me as the Amla of his day (though that day was only a year or so before Amla was first picked).

McKenzie, on the other hand, I've simply never understood how he's not become the next Daryll Cullinan. Such a shame. Thought he looked the goods as a batsman ever since I saw him hit his 1st ball in ODIs for four (OK, it was a bit more than that, but it was a good first sign).

Like Rob it's always baffled me how Amla has scored as many runs as he has in SAfrican FC cricket. Dippenaar it hasn't, but the fact is he's never looked the goods in Tests and has been damn fortunate to get as many chances as he has.

Equally, both McKenzie and Dippenaar have been exceptionally unfortunate not to get more opportunity in ODIs.

I hope McKenzie may get one last Test chance, as I have no doubt at all he's a better batsman than Amla. Whether anything will have changed since last time, though, I don't know.

 

[Richard]

Why is Papps keeping?

As I said - makes no sense to me, at all. Poor sucker falls cheaply for the 3rd innings in a row, and while he might still have done so had he not been keeping all day the previous day, obviously it couldn't have helped him.

As I also said, NZ had the chance to cash-in on a long tail, which they did - last 6 wickets down for 65, and last 4 for 11. Shame McKenzie didn't get a double-century, but Vettori grabbed 3-17 today and Oram rewarded for his superb precision (20 overs for 39) with 3 of his own. Bond with 24-112-2 rather more worrying, and Martin, well... is crap, as we know.

Langeveldt bowls 19 deliveries before conceding a run, bowling Papps in that time. Sounds like it was a good ball though, in commiseration to Papps.

EDIT: Taylor appears to be down to bat five, will hearten Kieran.

 

[TT Boy]

South Africa test squad has been announced…

Graeme Smith, Ashwell Prince, Herschelle Gibbs, Hashim Amla, Jacques Kallis, AB de Villiers, Mark Boucher, Shaun Pollock, Paul Harris, Andre Nel, Dale Steyn, Makhaya Ntini.

The twelve man squad has only been selected for the first test and according to national selector Joubert Strydom changes will probably be excepted if certain members of the batting order disappoint.
Strydom also said Paul Harris will definitely play unless the wicket is a green-top and Shaun Pollock could possibly return if the weather in Jo’Burg next week remains wet and overcast.

 

[Richard]

I certainly damn well hope it does. And I hope he plays. And I hope Ntini, Nel and Steyn all play too.

Presumably, also, that's going to be the same batting-line-up that playing in Pakistan in:
Smith
Gibbs
Amla
Kallis
Prince
de Villiers
Boucher

I'd naturally be far happier with:
Smith
de Villiers
Gibbs
Kallis
Amla
Prince
Boucher

But there we go. South Africa have dealt with opening-batsmen in a baffling way all my time supporting watching 'em.

 

[TT Boy]

As I said - makes no sense to me, at all. Poor sucker falls cheaply for the 3rd innings in a row, and while he might still have done so had he not been keeping all day the previous day, obviously it couldn't have helped him.

Nothing perplexing or sinister about Papps being wicket keeper. McCullum woke up yesterday morning with a stiff back and even though he missed two sessions it apparently felt good enough come the afternoon for him to take over behind the stumps.

 

[Richard]

All the same - why not have Vincent take the gloves? At least he's not opening.

At least there's a sensible explanation for McCullum not having them.

 

[Prince EWS]

All the same - why not have Vincent take the gloves? At least he's not opening.

At least there's a sensible explanation for McCullum not having them.

The fact that Papps is a better wicket keeper than Vincent and has done it much more often in the last four years might have something to do with that.

 

[Prince EWS]

He isn't as bad as many people say he is

Yes, he is. Absolutely pathetic batsman IMO. As I said before, I have no idea how he scores so many runs at first class level, but I'm quite willing to write him off as a test batsman regardless. Big call perhaps, but he's dire as a batsman. As Jono once said, the only thing he offers to the team is the fact that he looks call under the grill when he's fielding.

 

[Bahnz]

Dear god this is painful. Some real changes need to be made either in the coaching staff, or the batting lineup, if we're to avoid complete humiliation over the next 6 months. At the moment, with the exception of Vettori, our batting looks about on par with the Bangladeshi's.

 

[Corli]

What's going on with the New Zealand batting effort? 71/6 after 21 overs...

 

[Richard]

The fact that Papps is a better wicket keeper than Vincent and has done it much more often in the last four years might have something to do with that.

Is he? I thought you'd said they were both nothing more than part-time standard not so long ago.

Until very recently I've been unaware that Papps ever so much as picked-up a wicketkeeping glove TBH, so I don't really know much about how Vincent and he compare.