***Official*** Australian Domestic Season 2007/08

[sideshowtim]

Gee, piss in his pocket a bit more eh?

Haha, joking. He is definitely a run machine though, fantastic batsman. Trust me, the critics still have a lot of material though mate.

Not much of it is valid though. If you use common sense and logic, his record in India is quite clearly a statistical anomaly. You only need to look at his record against other subcontinental nations in their home countries to realise that he is absolutely fine in subcontinental conditons...

His ODI record in India is good too, so it's nothing with Indian conditions. Just an abberation really.

 

[Nate]

Just don't mention India...

*runs*

Or lack thereof really.

Fanstastic knock by Ponting. SA had no right to lose that really.

 

[Perm]

Not much of it is valid though. If you use common sense and logic, his record in India is quite clearly a statistical anomaly. You only need to look at his record against other subcontinental nations in their home countries to realise that he is absolutely fine in subcontinental conditons...

His ODI record in India is good too, so it's nothing with Indian conditions. Just an abberation really.

What are the main criticisms of Ponting? His record in India and the circumstances in which he scores most of his runs. Now, AFAIC he needs to correct his record in India or it will always be a blot on his otherwise highly productive career. However, changing the strength of opposition bowlers, size of bats, flatness of pitches and dimensions of grounds is something that is completely out of his control and he has no influence over

I wouldn't call it an aberration, but Ponting was poor the last time he played Test cricket in India, and that is something that can be held against him I suppose. As I said, until he correct's it then it could well be a situation similar to Dennis Lillee and the subcontinent, and I'm not sure what your views are on that particular issue.

 

[sideshowtim]

What are the main criticisms of Ponting? His record in India and the circumstances in which he scores most of his runs. Now, AFAIC he needs to correct his record in India or it will always be a blot on his otherwise highly productive career. However, changing the strength of opposition bowlers, size of bats, flatness of pitches and dimensions of grounds is something that is completely out of his control and he has no influence over

I wouldn't call it an aberration, but Ponting was poor the last time he played Test cricket in India, and that is something that can be held against him I suppose. As I said, until he correct's it then it could well be a situation similar to Dennis Lillee and the subcontinent, and I'm not sure what your views are on that particular issue.

Ponting's test record in India is indeed an abberation. The idea that Ponting can't handle subcontinental conditions is a very weak argument, and proves that Ponting doesn't have a lot wrong with his record.

Let's look at this a bit closer. Is it the subcontinent that Ponting struggles with? Evidently not.

Average against Pakistan in Pakistan: 119.00. Now while this was only one Test, it proves he can score runs in the subcontinent.
Average against Pakistan in U.A.E (Still considered subcontinental conditions for sure): 97.00. Once again, only 2 matches but still proves he can master subcontinental conditions.
Average against Sri Lanka in Sri Lanka: 54.45 in 7 tests. Not bad against a side containing the bowler that some consider the best in history...
Average against Bangladesh in Bangladesh: 93.50. Obviously not a storng opponent, but his century there in tricky conditions and in tricky circumstances was a brilliant one. It still proves that he's able to score runs in subcontinental conditions.
To add to this he averages 45.00 against India in India in 18 ODIs. Does someone who has immense problems with the subcontinent have that kind of record in it? I don't think so, no.

Is it the Indian bowlers that Ponting struggles with? Quite flatly, no. In Australia he averages 108.50 against India. A ridiculous average given that he's played 7 tests against them. It quite obviously isn't India's bowlers that Ponting struggles with either.

Logic shows that Ponting's record in India is a mere abberation.

And even with the improvements in batting, pitches and decline of bowlers as you mention...With these things taken into account, Ponting's record is magnificent. And even with these things taken into account, Ponting still averages more than anyone batting today.

 

[Perm]

Ponting's test record in India is indeed an abberation. The idea that Ponting can't handle subcontinental conditions is a very weak argument, and proves that Ponting doesn't have a lot wrong with his record.

Let's look at this a bit closer. Is it the subcontinent that Ponting struggles with? Evidently not.

Average against Pakistan in Pakistan: 119.00. Now while this was only one Test, it proves he can score runs in the subcontinent.
Average against Pakistan in U.A.E (Still considered subcontinental conditions for sure): 97.00. Once again, only 2 matches but still proves he can master subcontinental conditions.
Average against Sri Lanka in Sri Lanka: 54.45 in 7 tests. Not bad against a side containing the bowler that some consider the best in history...
Average against Bangladesh in Bangladesh: 93.50. Obviously not a storng opponent, but his century there in tricky conditions and in tricky circumstances was a brilliant one. It still proves that he's able to score runs in subcontinental conditions.
To add to this he averages 45.00 against India in India in 18 ODIs. Does someone who has immense problems with the subcontinent have that kind of record in it? I don't think so, no.

Is it the Indian bowlers that Ponting struggles with? Quite flatly, no. In Australia he averages 108.50 against India. A ridiculous average given that he's played 7 tests against them. It quite obviously isn't India's bowlers that Ponting struggles with either.

Logic shows that Ponting's record in India is a mere abberation.

I'm not saying that Ricky Ponting can't handle conditions in the subcontinent, but so far he hasn't performed in India and until he has, that aspect of his record will always be held against him. I've no doubt that next time Australia tour India and play Test cricket that Ponting will feature heavily, but it would be very interesting if Ponting did fail to score any runs, which would further fuel the talk he can't handle playing in India.

 

[sideshowtim]

I'm not saying that Ricky Ponting can't handle conditions in the subcontinent, but so far he hasn't performed in India and until he has, that aspect of his record will always be held against him. I've no doubt that next time Australia tour India and play Test cricket that Ponting will feature heavily, but it would be very interesting if Ponting did fail to score any runs, which would further fuel the talk he can't handle playing in India.

You're right, it will be held against him, but it's an illogical point because he's proven in both Test and One Day cricket that he is very good at playing in subcontinental conditions. People point out that Ponting's record in India is poor, but what are they alluding to? He can't handle the subcontinent or he can't handle India's bowlers?

 

[chaminda_00]

He choked in India

 

[sideshowtim]

He choked in India

So the argument that he is a choker? That's a ridiculous argument against Ponting, it's quite clearly not true. There are many, many innings which prove otherwise. Hell, his innings today proves otherwise!

 

[Craig]

He choked in India

TBF he is three or four times the player now as he was then. His breakthrough really started at Headingly 2001 for mine. If you look at his record since then

In 2004 he was out with injury and cameback on dodgy wicket.

 

[Mister Wright]

TBF he is three or four times the player now as he was then. His breakthrough really started at Headingly 2001 for mine. If you look at his record since then

In 2004 he was out with injury and cameback on dodgy wicket.

Yeah, Ponting was really troubled in India 2001. However, think it will be a different story next time he tours.

 

[chaminda_00]

Was just saying Ponting a gun player and choked in one series, which means nothing overall.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Having one series where you don't even get the chance to get yourself in, isn't "choking".

 

[iamdavid]

TBF he is three or four times the player now as he was then. His breakthrough really started at Headingly 2001 for mine. If you look at his record since then

In 2004 he was out with injury and cameback on dodgy wicket.

Yeah he was clearly not the player then that he is now, I think his troubles with Harbhajan in '01 were as much mental as technical.

And for me his breakthrough came in South Africa in 2001/02, coinciding with the extra responsibilty of the ODI captaincy...he had looked good in patches but a little volatile during that summer against New Zealand and South Africa, still not displaying great maturity, but as soon as he was named one day captain his batting stepped up a notch and he's looked nothing but the best player in the world since.

 

[honestbharani]

Ponting's test record in India is indeed an abberation. The idea that Ponting can't handle subcontinental conditions is a very weak argument, and proves that Ponting doesn't have a lot wrong with his record.

Let's look at this a bit closer. Is it the subcontinent that Ponting struggles with? Evidently not.

Average against Pakistan in Pakistan: 119.00. Now while this was only one Test, it proves he can score runs in the subcontinent.
Average against Pakistan in U.A.E (Still considered subcontinental conditions for sure): 97.00. Once again, only 2 matches but still proves he can master subcontinental conditions.
Average against Sri Lanka in Sri Lanka: 54.45 in 7 tests. Not bad against a side containing the bowler that some consider the best in history...
Average against Bangladesh in Bangladesh: 93.50. Obviously not a storng opponent, but his century there in tricky conditions and in tricky circumstances was a brilliant one. It still proves that he's able to score runs in subcontinental conditions.
To add to this he averages 45.00 against India in India in 18 ODIs. Does someone who has immense problems with the subcontinent have that kind of record in it? I don't think so, no.

Is it the Indian bowlers that Ponting struggles with? Quite flatly, no. In Australia he averages 108.50 against India. A ridiculous average given that he's played 7 tests against them. It quite obviously isn't India's bowlers that Ponting struggles with either.

Logic shows that Ponting's record in India is a mere abberation.

And even with the improvements in batting, pitches and decline of bowlers as you mention...With these things taken into account, Ponting's record is magnificent. And even with these things taken into account, Ponting still averages more than anyone batting today.

hahaha, one test proves that he can score in the subcontinent and yet 7 other ones in India DON'T prove that he struggles in those conditions?




Amazing logic, really........

 

[honestbharani]

TBF he is three or four times the player now as he was then. His breakthrough really started at Headingly 2001 for mine. If you look at his record since then

In 2004 he was out with injury and cameback on dodgy wicket.

the same dodgy wicket where Sachin and Laxman and Martyn performed better than him.

And btw, Sachin was returning from injury too... It was just his second game back from a big injury as well....

 

[honestbharani]

Having one series where you don't even get the chance to get yourself in, isn't "choking".

I think he was referring to 2001 there, Jack.

 

[honestbharani]

Yeah he was clearly not the player then that he is now, I think his troubles with Harbhajan in '01 were as much mental as technical.

And for me his breakthrough came in South Africa in 2001/02, coinciding with the extra responsibilty of the ODI captaincy...he had looked good in patches but a little volatile during that summer against New Zealand and South Africa, still not displaying great maturity, but as soon as he was named one day captain his batting stepped up a notch and he's looked nothing but the best player in the world since.

agree with that, but then again, when we are comparing batsmen across eras, certain things have to be taken into account.


As I said, I don't have trouble that he is the best batsman in the world by miles since 2002 but honestly, rating him against other all time greats, he is bound to fall short of a few there...

 

[sideshowtim]

hahaha, one test proves that he can score in the subcontinent and yet 7 other ones in India DON'T prove that he struggles in those conditions?




Amazing logic, really........

11 tests and a whole load of ODIs actually.

A good performance is worth more than a bad one by any stretch of the imagination too. You don't score several centuries in a place that you're terrible at batting in. However you may make low scores at a place you're good at batting in, such is the nature of batting.

Ponting's comprehensive scoring record in other areas of the subcontinent in both formats of the game proves that his Test record in India is an abberation.

 

[pup11]

Ponting still is only 32 and he still has a lot of quality cricket left in him and if sustains this sort of form in the future then i think he would easily go down as one of the greatest batsmen to have ever played the game.

 

[sideshowtim]

agree with that, but then again, when we are comparing batsmen across eras, certain things have to be taken into account.


As I said, I don't have trouble that he is the best batsman in the world by miles since 2002 but honestly, rating him against other all time greats, he is bound to fall short of a few there...

How so? His scoring record is becoming so ridiculously superior to everyone that he deserves such a status. Ponting, in my eyes, already is a great. As any man who has made as many runs at the average he has over 10+ years is.

Ponting has a superior record to Tendulkar after 110 tests (averages 5 more with about 500 more runs actually), yet Tendulkar was rightfully considered a great at that point in his career. Give up on the 'Ponting isn't a great' thing yet. Because he quite simply is.