• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Where to for NZ cricket in the next few years?

Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
Our test XI for whenever our next test is played

Michae Papps
Jamie How
Stephen Fleming
Scott Styris
Peter Fulton
Jacob Oram
Brendon McCullum
Daniel Vettori
James Franklin
Shane Bond
Chris Martin

The 2nd opening position is the only real tricky one, and you could really pick any opener in New Zealand based on current form. I'll give How one more chance in South Africa, and if he fails again, then give Peter Ingram a go against Bangladesh. Peter Fulton deserves a chance in the middle order given his outstanding recent one day form and superb first class record. Lou Vincent is next in line, and I reckon he's always a bit unlucky not to get a spot in the middle order, but at the moment I can't see a spot for him. Taylor is a distant third, especially after his disastrous World Cup. He still needs to work on his First Class record which is fairly average. And I know everyone absolutely loathes Chris Martin, but he's really not that bad, and he's got a good record against South Africa so he should be included. The rest go without saying.
 
Last edited:

HeathDavisSpeed

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Considering Ingram hasn't even been selected for the A team tour, I doubt he's gonna be in contention even if How has a nightmare.... That is, of course, if Bracewell retains his job.
 

Perm

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Would rather have Chris Martin than Mark Gillespie in test matches imo.
Moot point, I feel Gillespie offers a little bit more than Martin due to his pace and bounce. Granted that Martin can occasionally get it right and cause some real troubles (usually against South Africa) but he isn't really good enough to do this on a consistent basis.
 

Pup Clarke

Cricketer Of The Year
Gillespie's "pace" (135-140 kph) won't really trouble test standard batsmen. I've seen him bowl spells in the 140s but other times I've seen him bowl mid 120s.
 

Perm

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Gillespie's "pace" (135-140 kph) won't really trouble test standard batsmen. I've seen him bowl spells in the 140s but other times I've seen him bowl mid 120s.
You are quite right, pace alone won't trouble too many Test batsman. However couple pace with bounce and accuracy and playing most of your career in New Zealand then he should be able to pick up a fair few wickets. I have never, ever seen Mark Gillespie bowl in the mid-120's so I have no idea where you got that from.
 

Pup Clarke

Cricketer Of The Year
I remember a spell in the WC when he was bowling 125-130kph for 3 overs. More often then not though he does crank it up to the 140s. His optimim pace is usually around 84/85 mph. Plus, if you're being honest Mark Gillespie has never really and I doubt will have "accuracy". From the little I've seen of him he doesn't seem to be too accurate. In the Shane Watson mould tbh as he hits the pitch hard and bowls a "heavy" ball.
 
Last edited:

Flem274*

123/5
I remember a spell in the WC when he was bowling 125-130kph for 3 overs. More often then not though he does crank it up to the 140s. His optimim pace is usually around 84/85 mph. Plus, if you're being honest Mark Gillespie has never really and I doubt will have "accuracy". From the little I've seen of him he doesn't seem to be too accurate. In the Shane Watson mould tbh as he hits the pitch hard and bowls a "heavy" ball.
20/20 game vs Sri Lanka, on debut (I think) he went for only about two an over.

really up until his weirdo injury he was decent. He only got smacked when everyone else did too. Working with a bowling coach should help him improve.
 

Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
You are quite right, pace alone won't trouble too many Test batsman. However couple pace with bounce and accuracy and playing most of your career in New Zealand then he should be able to pick up a fair few wickets. I have never, ever seen Mark Gillespie bowl in the mid-120's so I have no idea where you got that from.
Gillespie is only really accurate to right handers. The moment he has to adjust his line, the ball goes all over the place, and the end result isn't pretty. To be honest he really isn't that fast either, only a couple of clicks quicker than Martin at the best of times. Given his relative lack of swing and movement, then if he has trouble taking wickets in ODI's, he'll find it a lot harder in the test arena.

He was bowling in the 120's at the World Cup, a pretty obvious sign that he wasn't fit and shouldn't have been playing.
 

Flem274*

123/5
The reason i've dragged this back up is NZ is going through a transition period ATM. McMillan and Astle have already left and Fleming will go next year. Styris, Bond, Sinclair and Cumming don't have long left either. My team without these guys would be:

Papps
Vincent/How
Fulton
Ryder/Vincent
Broom/Nicol
Oram
McCullum
Vettori
Franklin
Mills
Bennet

Can't remember Bennets age but hopefully he'll be ready when Bond calls it a day.
 

Athlai

Not Terrible
The reason i've dragged this back up is NZ is going through a transition period ATM. McMillan and Astle have already left and Fleming will go next year. Styris, Bond, Sinclair and Cumming don't have long left either. My team without these guys would be:

Papps Probably one of our better options
Vincent/How Probably not, ODI Vincent for sure, but otherwise :wacko:
Fulton Definitely should be in the squad but at number 3? I'm still hoping Taylor will earn this spot.
Ryder/Vincent Both should hopefully deserve this spot (Ryder over Vincent but a backup is handy)
Broom/Nicol I find it a little unsettling at the lack of Taylor in this squad yet these two are also rather promising
Oram Getting older IMO
McCullum Well yeah.
Vettori Yep
Franklin Yessir
Mills 4 out of 5 chance he'll breakdown IMO but if fit then sure
Bennet Don't know this fellow to well.

Can't remember Bennets age but hopefully he'll be ready when Bond calls it a day.
The lack of Patel is disappointing.
 

Flem274*

123/5
The lack of Patel is disappointing.
Hmm yes but I was using a typical NZ team there.

With regards to Taylor, I believe that Fulton and Ryder will be better in tests than him. Fulton is a no.3 so I gave him the spot. Brom is looking promising as well as Nicol. Taylor would make the squad but if Oram breaks down then I'd use Taylor as a number 6 batsman.
 

Athlai

Not Terrible
Hmm yes but I was using a typical NZ team there.

With regards to Taylor, I believe that Fulton and Ryder will be better in tests than him. Fulton is a no.3 so I gave him the spot. Brom is looking promising as well as Nicol. Taylor would make the squad but if Oram breaks down then I'd use Taylor as a number 6 batsman.
Taylor has mountains of potential, you never know, in a few years time he may have sorted out his problems (mostly his concentration) and be one of the finest batsman in world cricket. Can't see too many of the others being able to do as well as he potentially could.

Maybe Fulton and maybe Ryder (but Ryders a bit of a prat who needs to sort himself out).
 

Matt52

U19 Vice-Captain
A lot of this is based on hunches and promise but could be completely wrong.... But for mine, the nz team, once it settles down over the next two or three years and the fat is cut away would look something like this..

1)Rob Nicol.. Hes got a bit of talent but it seems like he is just not going to be good enough to make his natural middle order position, hes quite a slow scorer but is good on the back foot and just IMO he seems suited to an opening position. Hard to get out when he isnt pressed for time, his first class average is 38 or so..

2) Peter Fulton. I think he is better than he looks,, Has batted at 3 most of the time for Canty in domestic 4-dayers. I know hes been tried as an opener before but of all the other middle order players, Vincent, Ryder, Taylor, etc hes seems the most suited. Glenn Turner thought he could be a good opener. Hopefully he might be succesful in the role but ......

3) Lou Vincent. More suited to 3 or 4 in the order. averaged around 50 since he was recalled to the test team but that wasnt good enough for braces who dropped him again.

4) Jesse Ryder. Some people that know a lot more about cricket than me reckon he could be as good as Martin Crowe.. I dont know about all the other stuff surrounding him, but desperate times call for desperate measures..

5)Ross Taylor. Got bags of potential like Ryder and hes only young, give him some time and I think he will turn out to be one of our best...

6) Oram... still averages around 40, I think he should be in the side, but I think a lot of people , me included thought he would turn out to be better than he has been.. Maybe thats why we rate him so harshly.. I mean,, he averages the same as other batsmen but can also bowl.

7) McCullum. nothing needed here.

8) Vettori.. as above

9) Franklin. Test bowling average at 28, is not bad for a kiwi bowler... Useful with the bat, a night watchman that could score a test century

10 and 11) with no Bond its looks pretty dire but any two of these guys could be in with a show.......... Richard Sherlock..- provided 25 titanium rods are put in his back
Timothy Southee- maybe three or 4 years as opposed to two but seems very promising.
Hamish Bennett: Has played more than 4 games without getting injured, thats reason enough to put him in the side.




Other squad members would include Neil Broom, Micheal Papps, Jeetan Patel..., another pace bowler,,..
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
I just hope NZ play more test cricket. They have some potential in their ranks but it will continue to die unless they play the longer format of the game more often. They will always be a good Twenty20 and ODI side, but it is their test form that worries me. ICC need to do something about it.
 

sportychic33

State 12th Man
6) Oram... still averages around 40, I think he should be in the side, but I think a lot of people , me included thought he would turn out to be better than he has been.. Maybe thats why we rate him so harshly.. I mean,, he averages the same as other batsmen but can also bowl.
Interesting point, especially since this what Nathan Astle has to say in his book . . .

Oram is someone who I don't think we've seen the best of yet. Jake as often been labelled the next Chris Cairns, which doesn't seem to annoy him to much, but he is a different cricketer to Cairnsy. He's a man who thinks a lot about the game. . . Ar the moment, I rhink he still doesn't rate himself as much as he could. At times, when he's gone out to bat you can detect a little bit of hesitancy, whereas with the physical gifts he has, I believe he can assert himself. . . He's made strides in the last year or so to become harder mentally, and when he has that almost ruthless streak nailed down, he'll go to a whole other level.
I think this pretty much does sum his game up. Probably goes back to that saying about a certain % mental and a certain % physical (can't remember what they are 90and 10??) . Obviously has the potential to go much further with the bat if he can get over the mental barriers, but him being an allrounder is beneficial in what it does to the balance of the team.
 

Flem274*

123/5
Interesting point, especially since this what Nathan Astle has to say in his book . . .



I think this pretty much does sum his game up. Probably goes back to that saying about a certain % mental and a certain % physical (can't remember what they are 90and 10??) . Obviously has the potential to go much further with the bat if he can get over the mental barriers, but him being an allrounder is beneficial in what it does to the balance of the team.
Astle has a book out? I've gotta read that.

Its 10% talent and 90% mental I think.

I'd love to see Oram do what he did in that 101* game more often. I also have hope that his bowling can return to what it was, and maybe even better. It would be a shame if he had to cut out the bowling because of injury.
 

Flem274*

123/5
A lot of this is based on hunches and promise but could be completely wrong.... But for mine, the nz team, once it settles down over the next two or three years and the fat is cut away would look something like this..

1)Rob Nicol.. Hes got a bit of talent but it seems like he is just not going to be good enough to make his natural middle order position, hes quite a slow scorer but is good on the back foot and just IMO he seems suited to an opening position. Hard to get out when he isnt pressed for time, his first class average is 38 or so..

2) Peter Fulton. I think he is better than he looks,, Has batted at 3 most of the time for Canty in domestic 4-dayers. I know hes been tried as an opener before but of all the other middle order players, Vincent, Ryder, Taylor, etc hes seems the most suited. Glenn Turner thought he could be a good opener. Hopefully he might be succesful in the role but ......

3) Lou Vincent. More suited to 3 or 4 in the order. averaged around 50 since he was recalled to the test team but that wasnt good enough for braces who dropped him again.

4) Jesse Ryder. Some people that know a lot more about cricket than me reckon he could be as good as Martin Crowe.. I dont know about all the other stuff surrounding him, but desperate times call for desperate measures..

5)Ross Taylor. Got bags of potential like Ryder and hes only young, give him some time and I think he will turn out to be one of our best...

6) Oram... still averages around 40, I think he should be in the side, but I think a lot of people , me included thought he would turn out to be better than he has been.. Maybe thats why we rate him so harshly.. I mean,, he averages the same as other batsmen but can also bowl.
7) McCullum. nothing needed here.

8) Vettori.. as above

9) Franklin. Test bowling average at 28, is not bad for a kiwi bowler... Useful with the bat, a night watchman that could score a test century

10 and 11) with no Bond its looks pretty dire but any two of these guys could be in with a show.......... Richard Sherlock..- provided 25 titanium rods are put in his back
Timothy Southee- maybe three or 4 years as opposed to two but seems very promising.
Hamish Bennett: Has played more than 4 games without getting injured, thats reason enough to put him in the side.




Other squad members would include Neil Broom, Micheal Papps, Jeetan Patel..., another pace bowler,,..
It is a bit difficult to average more than 40 though as not many kiwis have done it. If he gains consistency then he will average 45 easily.

From what I've heard and read about Southee and Bennet I can't wait to see them play for NZ
 

Top