Imran Khan vs Keith Miller

[BhupinderSingh]

I am sick of hearing all these excuses and sorry reasons like Subcontinent is the graveyard for fast bowlers, hence Imran should get an extra credit. Imran was the first fast ever truly succeessful fast bowler from subcontinent hence he should get a bonus point, Without Imran there would be no Wasim Waqar etc hence Imran should get an extra point.

Sir,whats wrong in giving Imran credit for all those as they're all undeniable facts?

 

[Sanz]

Sir,whats wrong in giving Imran credit for all those as they're all undeniable facts?

Nothing much wrong although If we are going to use all that then Imran's mother is the biggest allrounder ever. Boycott's mum has some competition now.

 

[subshakerz]

Its a fallacy that Imran contributed greatly as a batsman in the World Cup. Yes he played a good knock in the finals but that's about it. His performance in rest of the tournament was average. Also I disagree about the 99 team being more talented than the 92 one.

Yes Imran deserves the credit for leading and inspiring his team and I give him all that and its possible(50/50) that Pak would not have won it without him, but IMO his contribution to that win both as captain and as batsman is highly overstated merely because Pak won the world cup.

IMO The win was made possible due to a. some excellent individual performances by Wasim and Inzi and solid b.consistent batting by Javed miandad throughout the tournament c. Luck d. Imran's contribution as captain.

The whole Pakistan team, Imran, Inzi and Wasim included, were in poor form in the beginning stages of the tournament. What Imran did is score when it mattered most, top-scoring in the final.

Every player in the side gives Imran credit for instilling self-belief when they looked hopeless, for charging them up, which led to their individual performances.

No way could the 92 team compare to the 99 one. Just look at the lineups and you can tell, especially in the bowling, Wasim and Mushtaq were the only quality bowlers in 92.

 

[subshakerz]

I am sick of hearing all these excuses and sorry reasons like Subcontinent is the graveyard for fast bowlers, hence Imran should get an extra credit. Imran was the first fast ever truly succeessful fast bowler from subcontinent hence he should get a bonus point, Without Imran there would be no Wasim Waqar etc hence Imran should get an extra point.

Doesn't somehow Warne get 'extra credit' for being the resurrector of spin?

 

[Engle]

A good match-up Bhupinder with 2 magnificent specimens from the game who had so much in common yet rich in differences. Many good points have been made on both sides and much learning material extracted. However, all good things must come to an end and at this point, the discussion seems to be faltering.
Enjoyed the fine points and encourage posters to strive to raise the bar in debate.

 

[Sanz]

Doesn't somehow Warne get 'extra credit' for being the resurrector of spin?

Which is another exaggeration.

 

[neville cardus]

Sobers was never considered a good captain. Neither were the other pace AR such as Botham, Kapil, Hadlee. Miller was never given that responsibility at Test level.

John Arlott always felt that Miller would have done a far better job as captain than Johnson on the 1956 tour.

 

[subshakerz]

Which is another exaggeration.

Agreed.

 

[archie mac]

When they speak of Imran as one othe greatest bowlers ever much more than they do Miller means that they rate Imran Khan as a much better bowler than Miller.

That may the longest bow ever drawn, on this site

And if I remember correctly Pakistan would have been knocked out of the 92 WC except for the weather saving them in one match

As for the comment no Wasim without Imran, why not? Another comment which is just silly

 

[Sanz]

The whole Pakistan team, Imran, Inzi and Wasim included, were in poor form in the beginning stages of the tournament. What Imran did is score when it mattered most, top-scoring in the final.

Check your facts before makig statements like 'Whole team was in poor form'. Yes Imran scored in the final, but that doesn't mean that he contributed greatly as a batsman in that world cup. He almost lost Pakistan the semi by his slow batting.

Every player in the side gives Imran credit for instilling self-belief when they looked hopeless, for charging them up, which led to their individual performances.

I think they give more credit to the weather gods than the captain himself.

No way could the 92 team compare to the 99 one. Just look at the lineups and you can tell, especially in the bowling, Wasim and Mushtaq were the only quality bowlers in 92.

Wasim at peak, Aaqib, Mushtaq as three main bowlers supported by Imran was such an aweful attack and in batting Imran, Miandad, Rameez, Malik, Sohail. Inzi, Ijaz, Moin, Wasim was really a pretty weak batting lineup, isn't it ?

 

[Fusion]

And if I remember correctly Pakistan would have been knocked out of the 92 WC except for the weather saving them in one match

Archie, what relevance does that have to Imran's contributions as leader? Weather is part of the game. Just like injuries. Arguably, Pakistan's best bowler that year, Waqar Yunis, got hurt and missed the WC. Who's to say what would've happened if he was available? The fact is, Imran motivated Pakistan to have a great fight back and they never looked back.

 

[funnygirl]

And if I remember correctly Pakistan would have been knocked out of the 92 WC except for the weather saving them in one match

Very much .

As for the comment no Wasim without Imran, why not? Another comment which is just silly

I am really tired of this comment as well . Firstly it was Miandad who brought Wasim ,then Imran nurtured him .Great thing ,but any teacher would love to have such a ''student '' .

 

[archie mac]

Archie, what relevance does that have to Imran's contributions as leader? Weather is part of the game. Just like injuries. Arguably, Pakistan's best bowler that year, Waqar Yunis, got hurt and missed the WC. Who's to say what would've happened if he was available? The fact is, Imran motivated Pakistan to have a great fight back and they never looked back.

I am wondering if the weather had not helped, would Imran be remembered as such a great captain?

Not saying he was not a great captain, I just like to ponder such things

 

[neville cardus]

I am really tired of this comment as well . Firstly it was Miandad who brought Wasim ,then Imran nurtured him .Great thing ,but any teacher would love to have such a ''student '' .

Which is why it's giving Wasim a criminal lack of credit to assert that, but for Imran, he'd have been a nonentity. I don't see what about Archie's comment you took exception to, given that you've all but agreed with it.

 

[shortpitched713]

I am wondering if the weather had not helped, would Imran be remembered as such a great captain?

Post reported.

Actually that statement is totally lacking in credibility because asides from winning us the World Cup, Imran was also a great Test captain who allowed us to be competitive with any side in the world, including the West Indies who were the best at the time. Before that we were just whipping boys, and Imran's captaincy was instrumental in that change.

Almost as bad as the mole comment, this.

 

[subshakerz]

Which is why it's giving Wasim a criminal lack of credit to assert that, but for Imran, he'd have been a nonentity. I don't see what about Archie's comment you took exception to, given that you've all but agreed with it.

Who is sayin he would have been a non-entity? Nobody.

What is clear is that Wasim wouldn't be the bowler he would become if it weren't for Imran's tutelage. He taught him conventional and reverse swing, encouraged him to be fast and aggressive insead of defensive, and very often Wasim would ask Imran's advice after nearly every ball of a spell (including those magic deliveries to Lamb and Lewis). He taught Wasim how critical a strict fitness routine was, something non-existent in Pakistan's cricketing culture at the time. More than any of that, he backed him to the hilt.

Ian Chappell, not a bad captain himself, put it best recently. He judged Imran as one of his 5 best captains and said, "Imran was a terrific captain. He had leadership qualities and I remember reading his book where he made a very important point. He said that all captains must understand bowling and bowlers in order to be good and Imran was very good in that regard and I think he got the absolute best out of bowlers like Abdul Qadir and Wasim Akram."

 

[subshakerz]

Imran's captaincy is a proven success, while Miller is an unproven in this regard (at the highest level). You seem to be trying to poke holes in Imran's captaincy simply because this skill gives him an edge that Miller doesn't have.

 

[Sanz]

Does anyone remember Saleem Jaffer, another left armer who came into Pakistani team around 1986 ?

 

[Pratters]

And if I remember correctly Pakistan would have been knocked out of the 92 WC except for the weather saving them in one match

Dire...

 

[Sanz]

Dire...

Isn't it a fact though ? I think the point Archie is trying to make here is that people are trying to exaggerate Imran's role as captain(and batsman) in Pakistan's victory in the world cup 92 by saying Wasim took the wickets because of Imran, all the players were inspired because of Imran etc etc.