*Official* Australia in decline thread

[pup11]

The thing is that Aussies have been so damn consistent over the years that even if they lose a few games people jump to the conclusion that the Aussies are no longer a force they were.
CC was bombarded with similar sort of threads when Aussies lost 5 Odi's just before the WC, all sort of things were said then that how Australia won't win the WC this time around and blah.. blah.. blah.. but Aussie once again proved why they are such a good side by winning the WC in the most comprehensive fashion possible.
If somebody even expects the current Australian team to perform like Tugga's invincibles then they need to get their head checked, Tugga had an immensly talented Odi and test side at his disposal with the likes of Gilly (in his prime), M.Waugh,Warne and McGrath (in their prime), Bevan, Slater, Ponting and Tugga himself was a great player.
So one should give credit to Ponting and his team for having maintained the standard of Australian cricket even without players of that quality, and Australia might not be the same invincible side that they were under Tugga but they still are the best cricket team in the world by a fair stretch.

 

[Laurrz]

The thing is that Aussies have been so damn consistent over the years that even if they lose a few games people jump to the conclusion that the Aussies are no longer a force they were.
CC was bombarded with similar sort of threads when Aussies lost 5 Odi's just before the WC, all sort of things were said then that how Australia won't win the WC this time around and blah.. blah.. blah.. but Aussie once again proved why they are such a good side by winning the WC in the most comprehensive fashion possible.
If somebody even expects the current Australian team to perform like Tugga's invincibles then they need to get their head checked, Tugga had an immensly talented Odi and test side at his disposal with the likes of Gilly (in his prime), M.Waugh,Warne and McGrath (in their prime), Bevan, Slater, Ponting and Tugga himself was a great player.
So one should give credit to Ponting and his team for having maintained the standard of Australian cricket even without players of that quality, and Australia might not be the same invincible side that they were under Tugga but they still are the best cricket team in the world by a fair stretch.

couldn't of said it better

 

[Laurrz]

Our attack for the gabba will be Clark, Lee, Johnson and Tait, with Symonds bowling some spin.

England came with a far better bowling attack than India and got a hiding, so I am sure India will get beaten.

i think India have the better bowling attack..
but if Aussie batting clicks it just doesnt matter really on our grounds

where India will most likely fail is there batting... Dravid Tendulkar Ganguly Laxman are getting older.. that means.. slower reflexes... and against Lee and Johnson in particular i am tipping them to struggle..
since they struggled against an attack of Anderson Tremlett Sidebottom etc. albiet in diff conditions
It's important there openers.. (Jaffer and Karthik?) get them through the new ball stage ..then the Indian middle order can be a handful..

 

[Athlai]

The thing is that Aussies have been so damn consistent over the years that even if they lose a few games people jump to the conclusion that the Aussies are no longer a force they were.
CC was bombarded with similar sort of threads when Aussies lost 5 Odi's just before the WC, all sort of things were said then that how Australia won't win the WC this time around and blah.. blah.. blah.. but Aussie once again proved why they are such a good side by winning the WC in the most comprehensive fashion possible.
If somebody even expects the current Australian team to perform like Tugga's invincibles then they need to get their head checked, Tugga had an immensly talented Odi and test side at his disposal with the likes of Gilly (in his prime), M.Waugh,Warne and McGrath (in their prime), Bevan, Slater, Ponting and Tugga himself was a great player.
So one should give credit to Ponting and his team for having maintained the standard of Australian cricket even without players of that quality, and Australia might not be the same invincible side that they were under Tugga but they still are the best cricket team in the world by a fair stretch.

So they are less dominant but still dominant eh?

 

[biased indian]

where India will most likely fail is there batting... Dravid Tendulkar Ganguly Laxman are getting older.. that means.. slower reflexes... and against Lee and Johnson in particular i am tipping them to struggle..
since they struggled against an attack of Anderson Tremlett Sidebottom etc. albiet in diff conditions

the age factor could be applicable to aussies also almost all of them are above 30 rite ???

i thought we batted very well in that series ..may be one inngs in lords can be termed poor

 

[Matt79]

But they're all massively fit (unless MacGill is in the team). Doesn't matter if you're 33 if you're fitter than the 22 year old you're competing against.

 

[Laurrz]

the age factor could be applicable to aussies also almost all of them are above 30 rite ???

i thought we batted very well in that series ..may be one inngs in lords can be termed poor

as Matt said, our oldies are very fit..just look at Hayden..Hussey.. fitness freaks
only MacGill is the suspect one

yea they didnt do too bad obviously as they won the series... but i feel a couple of years ago the Indian batting woulda been all over that attack.. and everyone in that side who played last time McGrath/Warne weren't here has aged a good few years

 

[Nate]

The thing is that Aussies have been so damn consistent over the years that even if they lose a few games people jump to the conclusion that the Aussies are no longer a force they were.
CC was bombarded with similar sort of threads when Aussies lost 5 Odi's just before the WC, all sort of things were said then that how Australia won't win the WC this time around and blah.. blah.. blah.. but Aussie once again proved why they are such a good side by winning the WC in the most comprehensive fashion possible.
If somebody even expects the current Australian team to perform like Tugga's invincibles then they need to get their head checked, Tugga had an immensly talented Odi and test side at his disposal with the likes of Gilly (in his prime), M.Waugh,Warne and McGrath (in their prime), Bevan, Slater, Ponting and Tugga himself was a great player.
So one should give credit to Ponting and his team for having maintained the standard of Australian cricket even without players of that quality, and Australia might not be the same invincible side that they were under Tugga but they still are the best cricket team in the world by a fair stretch.

I'm giving this thread five stars. Haha.

Respect Pup, top post.

 

[Pratters]

I don’t think that it is ridiculous for some one having a feeling or thinking that Australia might be less dominant. Similarly I don’t think that it is ridiculous for some one thinking Australia might be as dominant.

Losing three star players like McGrath, Warne and Langer is definitely a loss. Just because Australia have coped with losing players before doesn’t mean they will this time necessarily. How well Australia copes with it or how dominant it can be is some thing which remains to be seen and only the future can tell.

Similarly, whenever other teams lose players, how it affects them remains to be seen. When England lost Thorpe for instance, it got Pieterson. When world tennis lost Sampras, Federer started shining big time. So which team copes how well with losing players is a separate problem of each of those teams and each team will cope differently with such problems.

We can say with a fair bit of faith that Australia won’t go down to the level of West Indies from the peaks of their glory days because of the structure they possess but that does not mean that they cannot be less dominant than they are now compared to other teams..

This is definitely a key phase for Australia where I am concerned and it will be interesting to see how the cookie crumbles.

 

[Anil]

i'm pretty sure the australians will still be the best team by far for the forseeable future...

 

[Pratters]

i'm pretty sure the australians will still be the best team by far for the forseeable future...

The argument is Australia being or not being as dominant as before compared to other nations, not whether they will be best by far. They might remain the best team by far but may not necessarily be as dominant as before. I wouldn't think that either view - that Australia will be as dominant(if not more) or that it will be less dominant compared to other countries to be ridiculous.

 

[pup11]

The view can't be termed as ridiculous but the timing of this thread is highly questionable especially after Australia won the Odi series in Indian with an almost new-look side, likes of Haddin, Hopes and Johnson who weren't even able to break into the World cup playing XI performed so well in the absence of Watson, Hussey and Tait which shows the depth of the Australian team.
I agree still a lot needs to be done for Australia to prove that they can still hold onto their no.1 crown but just to say that they are no longer a dominant side because they weren't able to whitewash India (how many teams have whitewashed India in an Odi series at home?) then that's laughable TBH.
Even when we talk of Australia team heading back to the pack then we forget to take one major thing into account that the other teams are not progressing too well either.

 

[ChipSomeSixes]

Australia will still be dominant for a long time. They have the experience with Ponting, Gilchrist etc. All the guys coming in have had to wait untill the likes of McGrath and Warne retired. After the newbies get more experience the team will show their full potential and will be just as dominant as they have been over the last 5-6 years.

 

[Anil]

The argument is Australia being or not being as dominant as before compared to other nations, not whether they will be best by far. They might remain the best team by far but may not necessarily be as dominant as before. I wouldn't think that either view - that Australia will be as dominant(if not more) or that it will be less dominant compared to other countries to be ridiculous.

don't think i really ridiculed any of the ideas but even more than the presence of warne and mcgrath, what has made them exceptional this past decade or so is that:

1. all the players without exception are incredibly proud to wear the baggy green
2. although they have individually brilliant players, more than individual brilliance, it's a collective team effort that has brought them so much success, in other words they have been more than a sum of their parts, and when the parts themselves are truly exceptional and gel well, you can imagine what the total effect would be like...in fact you have witnessed it
3. their competitive spirit and will to win has been unmatched
4. last but not the least, they learned from the mistakes of the 80s when they were caught napping after the sudden exit of three great players, this time around, they are slowly but surely making quite adequate replacements for even seemingly irreplacable players...

in any case, there is daylight between the aussies and the next team(s), so even if they come down a notch in the short term, i don't think there will be any significant difference...

 

[Pratters]

don't think i really ridiculed any of the ideas but even more than the presence of warne and mcgrath, what has made them exceptional this past decade or so is that:

1. all the players without exception are incredibly proud to wear the baggy green
2. although they have individually brilliant players, more than individual brilliance, it's a collective team effort that has brought them so much success, in other words they have been more than a sum of their parts, and when the parts themselves are truly exceptional and gel well, you can imagine what the total effect would be like...in fact you have witnessed it
3. their competitive spirit and will to win has been unmatched
4. last but not the least, they learned from the mistakes of the 80s when they were caught napping after the sudden exit of three great players, this time around, they are slowly but surely making quite adequate replacements for even seemingly irreplacable players...

in any case, there is daylight between the aussies and the next team(s), so even if they come down a notch in the short term, i don't think there will be any significant difference...

Warne and McGrath weren't the only reasons Australia has been a great team, yes. However, they played vital roles and it is certainly not certain how well Australia will cope without them ie whether they will continue to remain as dominant compared to other nations or become less dominant. It is fair enough though if you think that Australia will remain as dominant. As I said, according to me, neither of the two views are ridiculous.

 

[pasag]

The point that I think people find ridiculous is the amount of times this subject is bought up, nearly everytime Australia lose a match we see these sort of threads and stuff in the media and especially to bring this up again after Australia have won an ODI series in India is imo 'ridiculous' (The OP was talking about ODIs, Twenty20s). Not to mention we've been hearing about this since 04 and before.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

You could make a timeline for this sort of thing.

Step 1) Australia win everything for a while.
Step 2) Australia lose a match, a series, a day or a session, a player retires or is injured, or any combination thereof.
Step 3) A thread is created suggesting, arguing or insisting that Australia are in decline and their next match against X team will be tough, or that X team will inevitably overtake them in the near future.
Step 4) 300 similar threads are created.
Step 5) Australia win everything for a while.

 

[Pratters]

The point that I think people find ridiculous is the amount of times this subject is bought up, nearly everytime Australia lose a match we see these sort of threads and stuff in the media and especially to bring this up again after Australia have won an ODI series in India is imo 'ridiculous' (The OP was talking about ODIs, Twenty20s). Not to mention we've been hearing about this since 04 and before.

ODI's, Twenty20 are a non issue as of now. The opening post might have flaws.. so what. Even the Andrew Symonds thread's opening post had flaws. Didn't stop the thread from evolving.

Just because we have been hearing some thing like this from 2004 doesn't make the aspect of Australia being more dominant than others in tests or not less significant right now. Australia had issues it coped with earlier. However, the current issue is a different one and for mine, right now is a fairly key phase one way or another.

It may be ridiculous people start threads every time Australia lose a match but people start threads when an Indian player is hyped up as well. Should we stop discussing Indian players because of people who have those extreme views?

There might be junctures in the past when the issue of Australia being less dominant being raised was frivolous and there might have been times when it wasn't but right now, it is certainly not frivolous as it remains to be seen how Australia fares in the future after losing 27.27% of it's team which includes two of the best bowlers of all time.

 

[biased indian]

AWTA fully..

lets us wait till the 6 test series is over and that too aganist not the best 2 teams capabale of playing in the conditions, this might give us an idea of how the three will be missed

 

[pasag]

ODI's, Twenty20 are a non issue as of now. The opening post might have flaws.. so what. Even the Andrew Symonds thread's opening post had flaws. Didn't stop the thread from evolving.

Just because we have been hearing some thing like this from 2004 doesn't make the aspect of Australia being more dominant than others in tests or not less significant right now. Australia had issues it coped with earlier. However, the current issue is a different one and for mine, right now is a fairly key phase one way or another.

It may be ridiculous people start threads every time Australia lose a match but people start threads when an Indian player is hyped up as well. Should we stop discussing Indian players because of people who have those extreme views?

There might be junctures in the past when the issue of Australia being less dominant being raised was frivolous and there might have been times when it wasn't but right now, it is certainly not frivolous as it remains to be seen how Australia fares in the future after losing 27.27% of it's team which includes two of the best bowlers of all time.

The opening post is what we are discussing and what people are referring to when they make their ridiculous comments.