*Official* Australia in decline thread

[NUFAN]

Well this is an international forum and especially when English isn't the persons first language you'd think you could go easier on them.

LOL I hardly went hard on the person..

Just by spelling a players name wrong is confusing, it would be a lot easier if people who spell both cricketers the same way put a 'S' in front of Clark or 'M' if he likes to spell Clarke, Clark..

It's not directed to the person who I quoted only.. it's just confusing - luckily Clark and Clarke perform largely different roles.

 

[NUFAN]

ya..its only a name rite..as long as its not confusing i am ok with it..

Sing is my favourite Indian player.

I'm joking mate..

 

[pasag]

Didn't mean that you went at him hard, just that you should understand that these guys don't have English as a first language so they'll be more prone to make the mistake, that was all.

 

[NUFAN]

Yeah I was just being constructive so that the person could realize that it can get confusing with two similar names.

It doesn't matter - I will just assume I know who they are talking about.

 

[biased indian]

Yeah I was just being constructive so that the person could realize that it can get confusing with two similar names.

It doesn't matter - I will just assume I know who they are talking about.

will double check form now on mate .......i always does that as most of the time i miss some letters while typing fast..since i am at work ..cannot keep this page open for long time

and sing i have no problem...since i am not a sikh

 

[Matt79]

The observation that losing McGrath and Warne has weakened the team overall is a pretty unsurprising one, I mean they're only two all time greats.

Everything is cyclical. Obviously there will be a time in the future when Australia aren't the best team in the world.

[Aragon mode]There will come a time when the strength of our bowling fails and we fail to knock over visiting teams.

There will come a time when our batsmen all fail at once, and there is no Gilchrist to turn it around in a session. When we don't have a settled top order.

There will come a time when our fielder's are inept, and our players too meek and unsure to have anything to say to the opposition.

But today is not that day!

.... for Tugga[/Aragon Mode]

 

[pup11]

First thing first India isn't an easy team to beat in their own backyard so a 4-2 series win for Australia (which could very well have been 5-2 if the Banglore game wasn't washed out) without Bracken, Ponting (in the earlier games) Hussey, Tait and Watson.
Now Johnson came of age in this series and Hopes also had a good series (as an Odi all-rounder), Hogg outbowled the Indian spinners and Hayden and Symonds dominated the Indian bowling with all the other batsmen contributing at some point of the series so all in all it was a good team effort from Australia.
Australia is in a transition period and still they are producing such impressive results, so i just can't think what makes anyone think that the Aussie team is on a decline.
Obviously with so many Odi's being played they are bound to lose a few games here and there but they still the most dominant side in international cricket by a long margin.

 

[itduzz]

In India, the ODIs showed that without Hayden & Symmonds Aus are an ordinary team.

 

[Pratters]

Wrt to Tests, the last Test series Australia played had a scoreline of 5-0. Come back to me when they're not in the middle of a 12 match winning streak. Granted Australia have lost their two best players and that's always going to be a massive blow, but after watching alot of cricket over the past year, I can safely say that nearly every other side has seemed to drop off as well and the supposed second best side, England, have spectacularly self-destructed. I'd be worried if any other sides were making leaps and bounds and rapidly improving at the same time as Australia were losing two champions but they're not and things are only going to get worse with the retirements of Murali, Vaas, Tendulkar, Ganguly, Dravid, Kumble, Pollock and others in the next few years.

India? Also, the point NZtailender made about back up strength is very vital. You need bench strength if you want to be a top quality international team consitently today (which is a bit different from even 2-3 years back) and India certainly has that right now. For instance, bowling wise, we still delivered in England despite Munaf being injured.

India

RP
Zaheer
Munaf
Sreesanth (he at least has talent and hopefully will get better with experience)
Irfan
VRV (can run in for you all day. Rate him a bit but even without him, 5 faster bowlers are pretty good)

Spin

Kumble
Harbhajan
Kartik

Openers

Jaffer
Karthik
Chopra
Sehwag (suspect again but still at 4th, not bad)

Middle order

Tendulkar
Dravid
Yuvraj
Ganguly
Laxman

Keepers

Dhoni
Parthiv Patel
Karthik (can come in as a keeper too)

Australia's bench strength has certainly reduced in tests with the retirements of Langer, McGrath, Warne. India v Australia should give us a lot of answers. One thing's for certain though - India, in tests at least has been going from strength to strength. Also, I don't see how you can see other teams will necessarily get worse by losing players like Murali, Vaas, Tendulkar, Ganguly, Dravid, Kumble, Pollock compared to Australia. If other teams will lose players, Australia have lost McGrath and Warne too and will lose other players in the future too.

 

[itduzz]

Pak also beat 4-2 India in their own back yard after 2-0 down without Akhtar,Asif,Gul,Misbah.......so dont give me BS of Kussey & Tait absence....Also Aus dont ahve any replacement for Hogg...

 

[pasag]

India don't really inspire me tbh, Pratyush. Yeah the Test series win in England was great but in the near future there is going to be a huge whole in their batting lineup. There may be alot of bowling options floating about but the only one that looks classy is Zaheer. All the others are abit meh. If I may be so blunt, it seems that that so called depth is nothing more than a heap of average players. The England series was probably the peak of this Indian Test side and I just don't see them getting better and better. All imo of course.

 

[pasag]

Also, I don't see how you can see other teams will necessarily get worse by losing players like Murali, Vaas, Tendulkar, Ganguly, Dravid, Kumble, Pollock compared to Australia. If other teams will lose players, Australia have lost McGrath and Warne too and will lose other players in the future too.

Nah my point was that many other sides will be losing quality players in the near future so harping on about Australia losing some of theirs is unnecessarily singling them out. Yeah Australia may get worse, but so will most other sides, is my point.

 

[silentstriker]

India don't really inspire me tbh, Pratyush. Yeah the Test series win in England was great but in the near future there is going to be a huge whole in their batting lineup. There may be alot of bowling options floating about but the only one that looks classy is Zaheer. All the others are abit meh. If I may be so blunt, it seems that that so called depth is nothing more than a heap of average players. The England series was probably the peak of this Indian Test side and I just don't see them getting better and better. All imo of course.

Actually, I would say the 1-1 series in Australia 2004 was the peak of this Indian side. But agree with you generally.

 

[Pratters]

India don't really inspire me tbh, Pratyush. Yeah the Test series win in England was great but in the near future there is going to be a huge whole in their batting lineup. There may be alot of bowling options floating about but the only one that looks classy is Zaheer. All the others are abit meh. If I may be so blunt, it seems that that so called depth is nothing more than a heap of average players. The England series was probably the peak of this Indian Test side and I just don't see them getting better and better. All imo of course.

In the future, a comet will hit the earth and the earth will burn in flames as well. I am more interested in the right now for tests (though obviously keeping an eye on the future is important).

The only one who looks classy is Zaheer? I take it that you have not watched that much of Munaf... RP btw I rate pretty highly and would back him for even the near future. We might disagree on RP though. That is three good pacers right there though for mine.

Is the depth nothing more than the depth of averages? A key element of the Indian batting has been being exposed to the new ball too early too often. With guys like Jaffer and Karthik, that hasn't happened in England and we aren't seeing 5/1, 10/2 that frequently any more. That gives a lot of strength to the middle order from where it can deliver big scores like it did in England at times.

A strong team works with all the players counting together... if 1 fails, the other backs him up. You don't have to depend on one or any particular player like we had to at Tendulkar in the 90s say. If you noticed, the victories in England were team efforts. That is why I said we are going from strength to strength which has been happening right from the test series against South Africa, West Indies.

I don't think guys like Jaffer and RP are a bit meh. The Indian team has been improving as a test side for a while now. Has the side peaked or will it be good in the future as well? I don't know really. India v Pakistan and then India v Australia beckons to give us more insights, whatever we might read from them.

 

[silentstriker]

In the future, a comet will hit the earth and the earth will burn in flames as well. I am more interested in the right now for tests (though obviously keeping an eye on the future is important).

The only one who looks classy is Zaheer? I take it that you have not watched that much of Munaf... RP btw I rate pretty highly and would back him for even the near future. We might disagree on RP though. That is three good pacers right there though for mine.

I think we might have a warped view of what constitutes a 'good bowler'. Zaheer was a good bowler in England, and maybe he can keep it up. RP Singh is passable, and I wouldn't put him much above mediocre. The others are not remotely Test class.

 

[pasag]

In the future, a comet will hit the earth and the earth will burn in flames as well. I am more interested in the right now for tests (though obviously keeping an eye on the future is important).

The only one who looks classy is Zaheer? I take it that you have not watched that much of Munaf... RP btw I rate pretty highly and would back him for even the near future. We might disagree on RP though. That is three good pacers right there though for mine.

We're talking about the future obviously though. The thread and everyone like it is asking the question as I understand it, will Australia be as dominant as before and that's what my posts have been addressing. So part of dominating in the future has to do with the decline of other sides in the future as well. I personally think you're abit too optimistic about this Indian side and its future.

 

[Raghav]

20/20 is not cricket so it does not count

CORRECT

 

[SJS]

Nah my point was that many other sides will be losing quality players in the near future so harping on about Australia losing some of theirs is unnecessarily singling them out. Yeah Australia may get worse, but so will most other sides, is my point.

Exactly.

Yes Australia are dominant and will remain (unless and) until others catch up. That will be the case whether Australia remain as good better or worse than they were.
.

 

[Pratters]

We're talking about the future obviously though. The whole thread is asking the question as I understand it, will Australia be as dominant as before and that's what my posts have been addressing. I personally think you're abit too optimistic about this side and its future.

I was countering your above point in which you say other teams not having made progress and other sides dropping off.

but after watching alot of cricket over the past year, I can safely say that nearly every other side has seemed to drop off as well and the supposed second best side, England, have spectacularly self-destructed. I'd be worried if any other sides were making leaps and bounds and rapidly improving at the same time as Australia were losing two champions but they're not

How am I optimistic or pessimistic about the side and it's future when I have said:

The Indian team has been improving as a test side for a while now. Has the side peaked or will it be good in the future as well? I don't know really.

I do know that the Indian team has been going from strength to strength though. How good they will be in the future or how Australia will fare in the future, we don't know really. For instance India have lost progresses made in past eras in a flash a fair few points in their history and Ausralia have had troubled phases like after the retirement of Lillee-Marsh-Chappell.

As I said earlier:

India v Pakistan and then India v Australia beckons to give us more insights, whatever we might read from them.

 

[pasag]

I was countering your above point in which you say other teams not having made progress and other sides dropping off.



How am I optimistic or pessimistic about the side and it's future when I have said:



I do know that the Indian team has been going from strength to strength though. How good they will be in the future or how Australia will fare in the future, we don't know really. For instance India have lost progresses made in past eras in a flash a fair few points in their history and Ausralia have had troubled phases like after the retirement of Lillee-Marsh-Chappell.

As I said earlier:

I wouldn't call some good recent performances leaps and bounds tbh (my words, which is what we're discussing) and I never said, to my knowledge that they hadn't made progress, I said no one has been rapidly improving. On top of that, you're losing 4 of the best players in the side soon so imo the future isn't bright. And as I said, I don't really rate the replacements, or what I've seen of them, either. I think this is as good as it gets for this side and it's not that good to begin with tbh.

Wrt to you being optimistic, it's how you rate this current bunch and their replacements.

To reiterate my initial point though, based on recent efforts and what we've seen together with what sides are going to lose, there is no evidence Australia won't be as dominant as before. That was what my first post here was talking about.