Who was better: Hadlee or McGrath?

[LongHopCassidy]

Exclude?

 

[Athlai]

Exclude?

I thought about saying exclude but decided disclude would be better, and I'm well aware it's not a word, my mac spell-checks everything I type, and has all kinds of fun dictionary options.
Disclude just sounds cool IMO should be a word.

 

[Anil]

both among the very best, i've watched both and hadlee shades it for me because of what i consider better variety without sacrificing his accuracy one iota, in fact he had as much metronomic consistency as mcgrath...

 

[Perm]

McGrath chased team victories
Hadlee chased personal records

McGrath stood head and shoulders over other pacers of his time.
Hadlee, well, hardly

Absolute bull****. You make it sound as though Hadlee was a selfish, self-centred git which is a blatant line.

 

[sideshowtim]

I can't say I've seen Hadlee bowl much, however McGrath has spent a majority of his career bowling against some of the best batsmen in history, against some of the most batsmen friendly pitches ever, with some of the shortest boundaries ever. McGrath wins.

 

[Engle]

Hadlee collected bucketloads of wkts without any competition from the other end

 

[Swervy]

Hadlee collected bucketloads of wkts without any competition from the other end

or another way of looking at it is:

Hadlee collected bucketloads of wkts without any support from the other end

 

[Athlai]

I can't say I've seen Hadlee bowl much, however McGrath has spent a majority of his career bowling against some of the best batsmen in history, against some of the most batsmen friendly pitches ever, with some of the shortest boundaries ever. McGrath wins.

Thats like saying, well I've never been to Rome, but Paris is such a great city it MUST be better.

 

[James]

Except both are obviously true. The first one is obvious and the NZ groundskeepers should have been fired if they did not make pitches that helped their only world class player. And second has been admitted by Hadlee himself, but that does not make him in any way an inferior player or team man. If anything, it drove him to be better. I don't think you can overstate how much he did for New Zealand.

And I am sure McGrath was after personal records too. Most great players are; they want to do well personally. That devotion and drive is why they become elite players in the first place.

Martin Crowe would have something to say about that

 

[silentstriker]

Martin Crowe would have something to say about that

Batsmen can't be world class.

 

[Prince EWS]

or another way of looking at it is:

Hadlee collected bucketloads of wkts without any support from the other end

Indeed. And that line of thinking is a much better way to look at it when someone averages in the low twenties.

 

[silentstriker]

Yea, bowlers hunt in pairs, and if the other fellow is going to release the pressure every time he bowls, it makes it much harder for you to take wickets. Much respect to guys who were the only world class bowlers in their side, like Hadlee or Lillee (with all due respect to Thommo, but he wasn't world class, especially later on) or Murali.

"Richard Hadlee at one end, Ilford seconds at the other." Says it all, IMO.

 

[Goughy]

Yea, bowlers hunt in pairs, and if the other fellow is going to release the pressure every time he bowls, it makes it much harder for you to take wickets. Much respect to guys who were the only world class bowlers in their side, like Hadlee or Lillee (with all due respect to Thommo, but he wasn't world class, especially later on) or Murali.

"Richard Hadlee at one end, Ilford seconds at the other." Says it all, IMO.

Yeah, Gooch said facing NZ was like facing the "World XI at one end and Ilford 2nd XI at the other."

Amazed that you can mention Lillee and Thommo with the other guys. Thomson was the most feared bowler in the world for a while. He destroyed England in 74/75 and a strong WI team in 75/76.

"Ashes to Ashes, dust to dust, if Thommo doesen't get ya Lillee must!"

Also the comment shows a lack of understanding of the quality player guys like Hogg, Gilmour, Walker, Pascoe, Hurst, Alderman etc who all averaged under 30 with the ball and played during Lillees career.

Lillee had significant and successful fast bowling support, not just the (underrated) Thomson.

 

[shortpitched713]

Yea, bowlers hunt in pairs, and if the other fellow is going to release the pressure every time he bowls, it makes it much harder for you to take wickets.

Don't know much about him as a Test bowler, but as a ODI bowler Ewen Chatfield was not one to simply "release pressure" willy nilly. That is to say he was a very economical, if not particularly threatening bowler.

Edit: He has a superb Test economy rate as well, so doesn't exactly fit the definition of a run-leaker.

 

[Perm]

Batsmen can't be world class.

Bollocks.

 

[Days of Grace]

Chats was a good bowler, and Snedden, Bracewell et al could hardly be called second XI standard XI imo, even though these days Braces isn't fit to coach the second XI...

 

[silentstriker]

Amazed that you can mention Lillee and Thommo with the other guys. Thomson was the most feared bowler in the world for a while. He destroyed England in 74/75 and a strong WI team in 75/76.

Well, that's why I said later on, which meant late seventies. From recollection, he only had a couple good series after that due to [I presume] injuries that caught up with him.

 

[Engle]

Hadlee's era had few batsmen avg 50+ and no batsmen avg 55+
As opposed to McGrath's era

 

[Athlai]

Hadlee's era had few batsmen avg 50+ and no batsmen avg 55+
As opposed to McGrath's era

Probably due to the better bowling...

 

[Engle]

or another way of looking at it is:

Hadlee collected bucketloads of wkts without any support from the other end

Hypothetically speaking :
If Hadlee had Warne at the other end, would his figures have been better or worse ?
If McGrath did not have Warne at the other end, would his figures be better or worse ?