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Who's the greatest opening batsman of alltime?

Who's the greatest opening batsman of All Time?

  • Total voters
    122
Ikki

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
Sanz said:
And how does it disapprove Anil's point ? What difference does it make if he had one century or 100 ? If anything, it proves that he took a lot more risks in ODIs.
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But he didn't take risks, he has a good number of 50s, he just took so damn long to build his innings.

Anyone who has watched Gavaskar play in ODIs can tell you that it took a while for him to get used to this format, but he became quite good in ODIs in last few years. I bet you have never watched any ODIs in the 80s, because a score of 220-250(in 60 overs) used to be a winning total and that was the average score of that time. Guys like Desmond Hayens, Gordon Greenidge, Gooch etc who used to open batting for their teams didn't have much better strike rate than Gavaskar.
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You're right, so how would Gavaskar fare then now in an era where even in Tests you are encouraged to score quicker? Do we drop his average by 20?
 
Ikki

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
silentstriker said:
No for a while "they" did not think he was as good as Hayden despite similar stats. So I don't know where the subcontinent comment came out of, considering the subject is completely different.
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Because it has nothing to do with what you've assumed I've meant. Which I'll admit was poorly phrased by me.
 
silentstriker

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
KaZoH0lic said:
And you would know this how?

I've checked a lot of his innings, they invariably range from 30-40.
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Dravid's S/R is 42 so its similar, and in addition, even if he could score faster, he would be forced to keep scoring at that rate as there was no one else in batting.

it is similar to Kallis in that every single coach tells him "Please stick around, we need you to be the rock of the batting lineup", and then the same morons leave him out of 20/20 because he scores slowly.
 
Ikki

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
silentstriker said:
Dravid's S/R is 42 so its similar, and in addition, even if he could score faster, he would be forced to keep scoring at that rate as there was no one else in batting.

it is similar to Kallis in that every single coach tells him "Please stick around, we need you to be the rock of the batting lineup", and then the same morons leave him out of 20/20 because he scores slowly.
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Yes, and Dravid is known as a slow scorer...whilst Kallis is also called a selfish one. And from what I remember of Sunil, he is worse than both.
 
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A

Anil

Hall of Fame Member
KaZoH0lic said:
Except for the fact that he was slow in scoring in both forms? If we had the comparable stats for his strike-rate in the test arena they'd show a worse rate. It really was upto him to bat that way. Many other batsmen have had it tough, like an Alan Border and he didn't batt that negative or defensively.
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like i said, don't bring a stat from one game out of 125 tests and 108 odis to prove a point...in any case, border used to stonewall with the best of them especially while he was leading a not-so-good aussie side in the 80s, he was exceptionally adept at playing according to the needs of the situation...and i don't actually see either gavaskar's and border's approach as negative compared to someone like hayden...and by the way, gavaskar's career strike rate for odis is 62 which was quite respectable by the scoring standards of that era...don't know his test strike rate but it doesn't matter 1/5th as much in tests...

KaZoH0lic said:
Yes, to a point it was necessary, but he stepped even further than that. He was clocking up runs and taking a long time to do it. Great defensive player sure, but he won his battles as a marathon and not in the sprint. What I was showing you by Hayden was trying to give you the stature of the man; why should he fear great bowling attacks? They may be better, but never enough to restrain this man to the crease.
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i never said he would fear great bowling attacks...but he certainly would have difficulty "conquering" them with his approach...just because he would swing away irrespective of the situation wouldn't make him a better batsman...

KaZoH0lic said:
Sorry Anil mate, I really didn't mean it that way at all. What I mean is that Hayden, if he had played for India would have gotten a much earlier start, would have been a bigger star on a less strong batting line-up and maybe gotten more love and recognition as he has as the big-bad-opener for the-big-bad-aussies.
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ok i misunderstood, thought you were accusing me of indian bias...it's possible that he would have been built up to be a bigger star than he was by the indian fans...but then he would also have had to face mcgrath and warne...;)
 
Ikki

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
Anil said:
like i said, don't bring a stat from one game out of 125 tests and 108 odis to prove a point...in any case, border used to stonewall with the best of them especially while he was leading a not-so-good aussie side in the 80s, he was exceptionally adept at playing according to the needs of the situation...and i don't actually see either gavaskar's and border's approach as negative compared to someone like hayden...and by the way, gavaskar's career strike rate for odis is 62 which was quite respectable by the scoring standards of that era...don't know his test strike rate but it doesn't matter 1/5th as much in tests...
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That's true, but I just disagree I guess. Sunil was much more defensive than he probably needed to be at times. I don't remember who it was that said that Bradman thought if there weren't balls to hit, don't hit them and if they were, you were to hit them; Sunil not only did not hit the balls that shouldn't be hit, he didn't hit a lot of balls that could've been hit.

i never said he would fear great bowling attacks...but he certainly would have difficulty "conquering" them with his approach...just because he would swing away irrespective of the situation wouldn't make him a better batsman...
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That's true, but 'swinging' away is a simple way of saying it. How many times have you seen Hayden come down the crease and not smash a ball - miss it? The guy batters pace attacks and that era was full of them - of course better ones. He is also a very good player of spin.

ok i misunderstood, thought you were accusing me of indian bias...it's possible that he would have been built up to be a bigger star than he was by the indian fans...but then he would also have had to face mcgrath and warne...;)
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Yes, that's also very true, but I think their paths may have crossed domestically.
 
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Ikki

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
silentstriker said:
Nah, Kallis is not selfish and Dravid is not slow. He bats slower than Lara, but that means nothing to me. They bat fast enough.
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It doesn't matter if it means much to you, it's a fact, they're slower than they need to be. Not the other guys are faster than they need to be. No matter what, scoring runs and doing it at a fast rate is the most important thing. Just because you can - the game allows you to - doesn't make it better if you actually can bat faster.
 
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Perm

Perm

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Pup Clarke said:
I'm wondering how people can rate batsmen or bowlers in order if they've never actually seen them play and go by stats. Their are probably only a small handful of members (SJS, JB etc) who've seen these players. It just seems farfetched to rate the best opener if you go by stats and what others think.
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Repuation, stories etc. It's not all based on numbers.
 
silentstriker

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
KaZoH0lic said:
It doesn't matter if it means much to you, it's a fact, they're slower than they need to be. Not the other guys are faster than they need to be. No matter what, scoring runs and doing it at a fast rate is the most important thing. Just because you can - the game allows you to - doesn't make it better if you actually can bat faster.
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S/R is pretty close to irrelevant in Test cricket, except in the very rare case where you are jeopardizing the win.
 
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