*Official* South Africa in Pakistan

[Pup Clarke]

So shp what would your Pakistan XI be for the 1st test?

 

[shortpitched713]

Well more realistic than my last posting, if Yousuf and Akhtar are available:

Shoaib Malik*
Taufeeq Umar (even if one removes Bangladesh, has best record of openers)
Younis Khan
Mohammad Yousuf
Yasir Hameed
Shahid Afridi
Kamran Akmal
Shoaib Akhtar
Umar Gul
Danish Kaneria
Mohammad Asif
3-5 are shuffleable according to preference

Without Yousuf and Akhtar I'd be inclined to replace them with Iqbal and Razzaq. Yeah, we really need them to play, especially Yousuf.

 

[Prince EWS]

Taufeeq Umar (even if one removes Bangladesh, has best record of openers)

Hafeez?

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

And Sami and Rana haven't?

Why does it matter that they've been dire? My response was stating that he's not actually better than them.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Well more realistic than my last posting, if Yousuf and Akhtar are available:

Shoaib Malik*
Taufeeq Umar (even if one removes Bangladesh, has best record of openers)
Yasir Hameed
Younis Khan
Mohammad Yousuf
Shahid Afridi
Kamran Akmal
Shoaib Akhtar
Umar Gul
Danish Kaneria
Mohammad Asif
3-5 are shuffleable according to preference

Without Yousuf and Akhtar I'd be inclined to replace them with Iqbal and Razzaq. Yeah, we really need them to play, especially Yousuf.

I think South Africa would fancy that lineup. Given that Akhtar is far from a worthy number 8 and Kamran Akmal hasn't been the surest of batsmen in his recent international opportunities. And then Shahid Afridi is hardly the most reliable of batsmen.

 

[shortpitched713]

Hafeez?

Taufeeq's is still marginally better.

 

[shortpitched713]

I think South Africa would fancy that lineup. Given that Akhtar is far from a worthy number 8 and Kamran Akmal hasn't been the surest of batsmen in his recent international opportunities. And then Shahid Afridi is hardly the most reliable of batsmen.

The gunness of that bowling attack though makes up for it. Would make for some entertaining cricket, to say the least.

Kamal for Afridi would solidify the lower middle order, but he just seems so far out of the reckoning right now..

 

[Prince EWS]

Taufeeq's is still marginally better.

Yeah I realised that eventually. I took Taufeeq's Bangladesh games out but I didn't think to do it with Hafeez. Hafeez is much more likely to play though because he also offers bowling (theoretically..), and is the man in posesson. He did really well against England and the West Indies but struggled against South Africa in conditions that really favourted their bowlers. I don't think one poor series is enough to get him dropped after his earlier performances.

What makes you think Yousuf is any chance of playing at all, by the way? I thought it was completely established that he was going to the ICL and hence would not be selected for Pakistan at all. Razzaq announced his retirement as well, did he not?

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

The gunness of that bowling attack though makes up for it. Would make for some entertaining cricket, to say the least.

Kamal for Afridi would solidify the lower middle order, but he just seems so far out of the reckoning right now..

It's a quality attack, but I'd still back SA to score more than 300 fairly comfortably against it. And if Yousuf fails, I can see that lineup falling away pretty easily for <300. And it is a game about scoring more runs than the opposition.

I'd give Butt a proper run at Test cricket and let him open with Umar. Then drop Malik down the order.

Salman Butt
Taufeeq Umar
Yasir Hameed
Mohammad Yousuf - MUST bat at 4, IMO.
Younis Khan
Shoaib Malik
Kamran Akmal (wk)
Shoaib Akhtar
Umar Gul
Danish Kaneria
Mohammad Asif

I'd much prefer that lineup. Because I have a lot more faith in Butt scoring in tough conditions than Afridi. And also I think you need specialist openers for Tests. Pakistan gives up on openers too quickly. But that goes without saying.

 

[Prince EWS]

Pakistan gives up on openers too quickly.

So your solution is to yet again drop an opener who has just had two good series and one bad one? Pakistan gives up on openers too quickly because everyone has different opinions on who should be there. There are a number of reasonably equal players who have reasonably equal claims to open the batting, so even the selectors probably disagree regularly. Hence, whenever one of the candidates does poorly, the cries for "bring back so-and-so" come through loud and clear and often eventuate.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

So your solution is to yet again drop an opener who has just had two good series and one bad one? Pakistan gives up on openers too quickly because everyone has different opinions on who should be there.

It can be argued that Butt was dropped allowing Hafeez to get his chance. In terms of chickens and eggs, one of them comes first and he should be given a proper run.
And Butt has always looked far more convincing than Hafeez. Admittedly I'd interchange Hafeez and Umar, but I think Butt needs to be there.

 

[Prince EWS]

It can be argued that Butt was dropped allowing Hafeez to get his chance. In terms of chickens and eggs, one of them comes first and he should be given a proper run.

Two wrongs don't make a right though. Dropping Hafeez for Butt doesn't suddenly undo the wrong decision to drop Butt for Hafeez/Farhat in the first place. I'm sure there will be selectors who believe Butt should have been given an extended run and will be trying to get him back in there at the first sign of failure from Hafeez, but that's precisely why Butt was dropped in the first place - there would have been someone claiming Imran Farhat should be back in the team at the time.

We all have our personal preferences on the Pakistan opening problem as they've tried a whole bunch of players who are all reasonably equal. But I'll honestly be happy if they just pick a pair and stick with them for a little while instead of playing musical chairs with them. Hafeez should not be dropped. There is an open place now given that Farhat has left Pakistan cricket, and that should go to Butt or Umar. I don't really mind which one, as long as they don't get dropped again after one series.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Two wrongs don't make a right though. Dropping Hafeez for Butt doesn't suddenly undo the wrong decision to drop Butt for Hafeez/Farhat in the first place.

It's not about righting wrongs. It's about Butt being a better longterm option than Hafeez, IMO. And as I said, it's really more down to Taufeeq and Hafeez battling for the second opener spot. That's how convinced I am that Butt should be opening the batting in Tests.

Hafeez should not be dropped.

And Butt shouldn't have been dropped. There's no right or wrong here. It's all about preference, as you've said. So I don't see how dropping Hafeez to give a lifeline to Butt is any better than continuing with Hafeez and denying Butt that chance.

 

[Prince EWS]

So I don't see how dropping Hafeez to give a lifeline to Butt is any better than continuing with Hafeez and denying Butt that chance.

Because it'd be making the same mistake yet again: dropping a player after one bad series after realising that the last player you dropped perhaps shouldn't have been. If Hafeez was dropped for Butt, Butt would probably have two good series and one bad one, and then people would say "Pakistan's openers are dire. Why did they drop Hafeez again?" - and the cycle would continue. If I was picking the team right now, I'd probably open with Butt and Hafeez anyway, so it is somewhat of a mute point for mine.

 

[Pup Clarke]

TBH I'd go back to the opening combination that did well against England in 05/06, meaning...

Butt
Malik
Younus
Yousuf
Inzamam (has he retired?)
Hameed
Akmal
Shoaib
Gul
Asif
Kaneria

 

[Richard]

Why does it matter that they've been dire? My response was stating that he's not actually better than them.

Well I was merely stating that they've all three been equally awful TBH.

 

[TT Boy]

Test squad

South Africa: Graeme Smith (captain), Hashim Amla, Mark Boucher, AB de Villiers, JP Duminy, Herschelle Gibbs, Paul Harris, Jacques Kallis, Morne Morkel, Andre Nel, Makhaya Ntini, Shaun Pollock, Ashwell Prince, Dale Steyn.

No surprises. Although, SuperSport were incorrect in the McKenzie claim, he doesn’t even make the 14, neither does Human and Pollock isn’t 'rested', as they suggested he would be.

 

[Richard]

"Human"?

 

[Prince EWS]

"Human"?

Dippenaar.

 

[Richard]

Aha. Read it as "hyoomun" not "hoomaan".