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Who is the best pace bowler of all time?

vic_orthdox

Global Moderator
McGrath seemed to have the ability to bowl "defensive balls". Yes, there were a lot of innocuous (sp) deliveries in there, but it was because he was more patient than the batsmen. He actually dictated terms and decided when the batsman could play a shot. He is the perfect example of a bowler who wasn't trying to take a wicket every ball.

I guess that's part of the magic of Wasim. You watched each ball and though, "Wow, how didn't he nick that?" or "That was so close!".
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
The greatest thing is that methods which form part of defence also contribute to the ability to attack. Those many defensive balls can be attacking ones if the right thing happens.

As you say though - not as obviously thrilling.
 

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
I just came across an interview of Richie Benaud regarding his all time XI. A couple of interesting comments about Barnes and also his pace.


The one person in the team people might not know much about is SF Barnes. Did you see much footage of him?
No, but I did meet him, in 1953. Everyone I spoke to back in Australia when I was young always said Bradman was the greatest batsman and that SF Barnes of England was the greatest bowler who ever lived.​
What were his main strengths? He wasn't particularly quick, was he?
Apparently he was quickish - I imagine he was about Alec Bedser's pace. Massive hands, and his trademark was the ability to swing the ball one way and then cut it back the other.​
 

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
Fair enough. I've said before what I think about using stats as the sole criteria so I won't go into it again, but I do have another question:

By which statistical criteria is McGrath the greatest pace bowler of all time?
The fact that his average compares to (and in most cases better than) any modern bowler, even with the fact that most of the pitches this decade have been flat as hell. So basically, he played on pitches flatter than the guys of 70s, 80s but took more wickets at a similar strike rates (LOL @ the defensive bowler stereotypes).

Not to mention the increases in quality of bats and the progressively smaller grounds. His stats can be favorably compared to virtually anyone, but he lasted longer than most and did it in a decade where fast bowling is extremely hard to do successfully and consistently. And what is even more remarkable is that you can't name a country that he sucks against. Virtually every other bowler have countries that they just don't do all that well against. Not so with McGrath.

In addition to all that, he has a very unique gift that a lot of '***ier' bowlers lack: be a two-in-one bowler. Most fast bowlers (like Wasim) could bowl very aggressively but weren't as proficient as keeping it tight. Whereas a guy like McGrath just owned you both in terms of runs and taking wickets.

And finally, no bowler that I am aware of has taken the same amount of top order wickets. Most fast bowlers take some top order wickets but a lot of them prey on bouncing and yorking out the lower order, which is all good but no one has specialized in targeting the best and biggest scalps of the opposition as successfully as McGrath (See, Atherton, Kallis, etc).

In fact, 66% of wickets taken by McGrath have been top order wickets. And more amazingly, the average of those top six batsmen in those innings that they were dismissed by McGrath was an astounding 20.68!

That is the lowest average of any bowler to have ever played the game and taken 300 wickets. For comparison, Wasim 56% and average of 22. Lillee, 63% and average of 27.

McGrath = Best.

I can bet for my life that silent striker won't be a fan of Lara .Because

Lara said ''Wasim is the greatest fast bowler i ever faced'':laugh: .
That's because McGrath dismissed him 15 times, so he never had a chance to bat against McGrath for long. :ph34r:


pasag said:
stats are evil
Nah, stats improperly used are evil.
 
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SJS

Hall of Fame Member
The best pace bowler of alltime is Imran Khan & no one(amongst modern day bowlers) beats him in terms of performance at peak.The proof is ICC rating ratings.And he also played on much flatter tracks than what McGrath did.Imagine someone who had to play for about half of his career on flattest wickets of Pakistan(which were the flattest ever during late 70s,80s & 90s).And McGrath played on much more bowling friendly wickets than Imran did(outside Pakistan).
Jee Huzoor. Aur Hukum :)
 
The fact that his average compares to (and in most cases better than) any modern bowler, even with the fact that most of the pitches this decade have been flat as hell. So basically, he played on pitches flatter than the guys of 70s, 80s but took more wickets at a similar strike rates (LOL @ the defensive bowler stereotypes).

Not to mention the increases in quality of bats and the progressively smaller grounds. His stats can be favorably compared to virtually anyone, but he lasted longer than most and did it in a decade where fast bowling is extremely hard to do successfully and consistently. And what is even more remarkable is that you can't name a country that he sucks against. Virtually every other bowler have countries that they just don't do all that well against. Not so with McGrath.

In addition to all that, he has a very unique gift that a lot of '***ier' bowlers lack: be a two-in-one bowler. Most fast bowlers (like Wasim) could bowl very aggressively but weren't as proficient as keeping it tight. Whereas a guy like McGrath just owned you both in terms of runs and taking wickets.

And finally, no bowler that I am aware of has taken the same amount of top order wickets. Most fast bowlers take some top order wickets but a lot of them prey on bouncing and yorking out the lower order, which is all good but no one has specialized in targeting the best and biggest scalps of the opposition as successfully as McGrath (See, Atherton, Kallis, etc).

In fact, 66% of wickets taken by McGrath have been top order wickets. And more amazingly, the average of those top six batsmen in those innings that they were dismissed by McGrath was an astounding 20.68!

That is the lowest average of any bowler to have ever played the game and taken 300 wickets. For comparison, Wasim 56% and average of 22. Lillee, 63% and average of 27.

McGrath = Best.



That's because McGrath dismissed him 15 times, so he never had a chance to bat against McGrath for long. :ph34r:




Nah, stats improperly used are evil.
The best (pace) bowler of alltime is Imran Khan & no one(amongst modern day bowlers) beats him in terms of performance at peak.The proof is ICC rating ratings.And he also played on much flatter tracks than what McGrath did.Imagine someone who had to play for about half of his career on flattest wickets of Pakistan(which were the flattest ever during late 70s,80s & 90s).And McGrath played on much more bowling friendly wickets than Imran did(outside Pakistan).
 
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Fusion

Global Moderator
Jee Huzoor. Aur Hukum :)
The best pace bowler of alltime is Imran Khan & no one(amongst modern day bowlers) beats him in terms of performance at peak.The proof is ICC rating ratings.And he also played on much flatter tracks than what McGrath did.Imagine someone who had to play for about half of his career on flattest wickets of Pakistan(which were the flattest ever during late 70s,80s & 90s).And McGrath played on much more bowling friendly wickets than Imran did(outside Pakistan).
Forget who's the best pace bowler, the more important question is how in the world did SJS quote and reply to Bhupinder BEFORE he made his post? :blink:
 
Forget who's the best pace bowler, the more important question is how in the world did SJS quote and reply to Bhupinder BEFORE he made his post? :blink:
Actually,I intended to quote ss but by a mistake I quoted SJS's post & SJS (thinking that I quoted him) got so angry.But later when I realized my mistake,I decided to delete the earlier & post a new one instead of deciding to edit the earlier one.
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
Lillee, and if you want to know why, just go ask the heroes you named #1 because they'd have him before themselves.
 

archie mac

International Coach
How long are you going to misrepresent that argument? Come on, I have more respect for you than that. I'm not telling you to agree with it, but at least don't misrepresent what most of us are saying.
:laugh: I was just seeing if you would bite mate:)

And let me tell you I now have a big bruise on my bum:laugh:
 
Indian batsmen must have slaughtered him. Wonder how many matches he played in India?

Any idea BS ?
Ok sorry about India but you can't deny that he failed on asian wickets.An to me,it doesn't matter whether someone plays 1 match,3 or 100.When you are a failure,you are a failure & no. of matches should not be used as excuse.Lillee not playing any game in India doesn't change the fact that he failed on asian wickets & avoided touring here on many ocassions.
 

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