The Indian ODI side

[honestbharani]

I tend to agree about dropping/resting Ganguly. I also feel we tesnd to forget some players once they are out of the side.

Kaif is a big example. So is Raina in a way. Thats why people are so scared of being dropped. Here are two players who would not be misfits as batsmen as far as skill sets are concerned (both known and appreciated by all) and are brilliant fielders.

Young blood is fine but everyone who is young and not 'sleeping' in the field isn't necessarily a cert for an international side. That would devalue a place in the side. Fielding is a very important criteria for selection but it cant be the only one and youth doesnt automatically assure good fielding (look at Munaf or a young Ganguly for that matter) nor does it assure the qualities of being an international level batsman or bowler.

Yes we need fresh blood everyone does but we seem to want to induce youngsters only because of when they were born and drop seniors only because of the same. Unfortunately, not dropping seniors when they are clearly out of form gives rise to a public outcry that goes to the other extreme and starts yelling for them to retire or that they are finished.

If India treated its seniors/superstars with respect but not always with kid gloves and similarly treated youngsters with careful handling and maturity and not as knee-jerk reactions, we would have made better use of all our resources which should always have both young blood and experience.

Indeed.

The point about Ganguly here is, by having him in the side constantly and always having him open, we will never know what someone else can do at that slot. We will have to wait till one of Sachin or Sourav to get injured and then see. Even then it won't be the same as batting with SAchin at the other end is NOT the same as batting with Sourav at the other end.

Rest him for a series and give someone else a chance and see if he can produce as much as Ganguly with the bat and ball and bring better fielding skills to the table. If he does, then get him in, otherwise, go back to Ganguly because at least then you know that the replacements aren't exactly better either.


Also, someone like Laxman in the test side is just eating up a spot IMO. He is not scoring hundreds, neither is he adept at batting with the tail, because you need to be able to play big shots to do that. He is not the ideal #6 for us. He may be good batting at 3 or 4 but at 6, that is not the best spot for him. He may be a better test batsman than Yuvraj but does that mean we have to play him at a spot from where he can't deliver his best? Someone like Yuvraj might be a much better bet at that position. Again, we won't know for sure till we try him and we can't do that, because Laxman keeps getting 40s and 50s and makes sure he has enough runs to just stay in the side. This is what is keeping us down from trying youngsters.....

 

[SJS]

Its very interesting to see the distribution of India's odi players over the number of matches played and compare it to a successful ODI side like Australia.

Here is what it looks like.

Both Australia and India have played more or less the same number of players in odi's so far. India has played 169 in their 600 games and Australia 162 in their 659. Clearly India is not lagging behind in bringing in fresh blood. Its actually approxamtely 10 percent better in this respect.

They both discard about five percent of their players by the time they have played their fifth match (or less) and between 42 to 43 percent by the time they have played ten. So the difference isnt much till this stage. Except maybe that India's players are younger when they debut than Australia's. One really needs to check that but it might be correct.

The differences start now.

Exactly 50% of the Australians who play their 11th game go on to play 50 or more. For India this percentage is under 40. Clearly after having done the initial screening (and having invested in them) we do not show as much faith in them after that. Whether it is due to a faulty screening at the early stage or problems of selection on a more permanent basis over time is a moot point.

But this changes again once you achieve this elusive permanency.

For Australia of the people who play their 50th odi only 47% go onto play 100 games for India this percentage jumps to above 63 !! Is it much more difficult to dislodge a senior in India than in Australia ?

Finally while one out of the 21 Aussies who played 100 odi's went on to play 300 or more. For India one out of every 6 has done so !!

Its clear, the superstars are very difficult to dislodge in India. Inspite of the Australians being fitter when they play their last match than the Indians.

 

[Manee]

Gambhir is useless, there is no way he should be anywhere near the ODI side. S Badrinath, Rohit Sharma, Suresh Raina, Mohammad Kaif, Robin Uthappa would all be better selections IMO.

Although I agree, useless is a bit harsh. He has a fantastic FC record and was unlucky not to have a long stint opening for India. However, with Jaffer, Karthik and possibly Aakash Chopra pushing hard for that position, it appears he will not be given the chance. He is decent, but sadly, I don't think he is quite up to ODI cricket, I think he is more than handy to stick around till a very good long term prospect has proven himself at ODI level.

Interesting stats for the players you named, no purpose, just thought you may be interested:

List A

Badrinath - Average: 36.38. SR: 75.34
Rohit Sharma - Average: 39.36. SR = 89.04
Suresh Raina - Average: 36.34. SR = 84.99
Mohammad Kaif - Average: 38.26. SR = Unknown but ODI SR = 72.03
Robin Uthappa - Average: 38.48. SR = 91.89

Using this and taking fielding abilities into consideration I would have the pecking order at:

1. Robin Uthappa
2. Rohit Sharma
3. Suresh Raina
4. Mohammad Kaif
5. Gautam Gambhir
6. Badrinath

 

[viktor]

Throw Manoj Tiwari into the mix and we have the makings of a decent middle order in the near to middle future.

 

[Manee]

Yes, lets just hope the right choices are made in the future with the right oppotunities given to all the right people.

Just to complete it.

Manoj Tiwary

Batting average: 36.15. SR: 86.96
Bowling average: 36.85. Econ: 4.96

I would probably put him 4 in the pecking order joint with Kaif.

 

[Richard]

Although I agree, useless is a bit harsh. He has a fantastic FC record and was unlucky not to have a long stint opening for India. However, with Jaffer, Karthik and possibly Aakash Chopra pushing hard for that position, it appears he will not be given the chance. He is decent, but sadly, I don't think he is quite up to ODI cricket, I think he is more than handy to stick around till a very good long term prospect has proven himself at ODI level.

Interesting stats for the players you named, no purpose, just thought you may be interested:

List A

Badrinath - Average: 36.38. SR: 75.34
Rohit Sharma - Average: 39.36. SR = 89.04
Suresh Raina - Average: 36.34. SR = 84.99
Mohammad Kaif - Average: 38.26. SR = Unknown but ODI SR = 72.03
Robin Uthappa - Average: 38.48. SR = 91.89

Using this and taking fielding abilities into consideration I would have the pecking order at:

1. Robin Uthappa
2. Rohit Sharma
3. Suresh Raina
4. Mohammad Kaif
5. Gautam Gambhir
6. Badrinath

 

[sledger]

haha, agree with richard.

 

[SJS]

haha, agree with richard.

Will you please, pleeeeeaaaase, change your avataar to one different from Richard's.

 

[pup11]

Tendulkar, Dravid and Ganguly are legends of Odi cricket but they are no spring chickens, and their agility on the field is not upto the mark obviously they still have the class to win games for India with their batting alone but i think its about time the selectors give some young lads (who they think have got some genuine talent) a chance to prove themselves at this level.
Indian team also needs to find a good no.3 batsman and they should just stop experimenting with that spot, and for god's sake stop turning openers (Uthappa and Gambhir) into middle-order batsmen.

 

[Pup Clarke]

Will you please, pleeeeeaaaase, change your avataar to one different from Richard's.

AWTA

 

[Richard]

Will you please, pleeeeeaaaase, change your avataar to one different from Richard's.

Haha. We finally get a comment.

(You're far more likely to get sledger's attention in OT than here tho. And when he changes his avatar back, he'll remove my sig and change his location back too)

 

[Manee]

why you think that?

 

[Richard]

2 reasons, TBH - mainly because Venugopal Rao is now out of the picture and he was someone I, for some reason (rather like Hemang Badani) really wanted to see have success.

But also, more obviously, because from an English POV it's truly enviable to have so many batsmen with such credentials. There are roughly 0 (as you'd know, living here) over here at present of a similar age. Most young batsmen in this country tend to excel only at the longer game.

 

[cricketboy29]

What about Luke Wright, Ravi Bopara? From what I remember of that damned match wherever it was...Stuart Broad certainly isn't a mug with a bat...

 

[adharcric]

Although I agree, useless is a bit harsh. He has a fantastic FC record and was unlucky not to have a long stint opening for India. However, with Jaffer, Karthik and possibly Aakash Chopra pushing hard for that position, it appears he will not be given the chance. He is decent, but sadly, I don't think he is quite up to ODI cricket, I think he is more than handy to stick around till a very good long term prospect has proven himself at ODI level.

Interesting stats for the players you named, no purpose, just thought you may be interested:

List A

Badrinath - Average: 36.38. SR: 75.34
Rohit Sharma - Average: 39.36. SR = 89.04
Suresh Raina - Average: 36.34. SR = 84.99
Mohammad Kaif - Average: 38.26. SR = Unknown but ODI SR = 72.03
Robin Uthappa - Average: 38.48. SR = 91.89

Using this and taking fielding abilities into consideration I would have the pecking order at:

1. Robin Uthappa
2. Rohit Sharma
3. Suresh Raina
4. Mohammad Kaif
5. Gautam Gambhir
6. Badrinath

Badrinath should be right up there with Uthappa. Keep an eye on Pujara (Saurashtra), Rahane (Mumbai), Kohli (Delhi) and Srivastava (UP).

 

[Richard]

What about Luke Wright, Ravi Bopara? From what I remember of that damned match wherever it was...Stuart Broad certainly isn't a mug with a bat...

Luke Wright who averaged about 15 with the bat before this Pro40 season, yeah? Great, if he's our best prospect and he's up against Rohit Sharma who averages all but 40 already...

Bopara, too, who averages at least 5 less than every single one of those names on Manraj's list.

I repeat...

 

[Manee]

Luke Wright who averaged about 15 with the bat before this Pro40 season, yeah? Great, if he's our best prospect and he's up against Rohit Sharma who averages all but 40 already...

Bopara, too, who averages at least 5 less than every single one of those names on Manraj's list.

I repeat...

I was waiting for that

Fielding will always be England's strength and they will never rely on brute batting strength but I must agree with Richard that the future looks a lot brighter for India than it does for England in ODIs especially with most of the people I mentioned being good fielders.

 

[honestbharani]

Looks like I was reasonably close to the actual side that has been selected. We will have to see how these 12 ODIs pan out as this COULD decide what road the Indian ODI side takes leading upto the WC, whether the seniors in the side continue to be the fulcrum or whether the few youngsters who are given (limited) opportunities are able to make the most of it and start pushing the seniors out of the side slowly....

 

[sunilreddy]

Sachin
Ganguly
Gambhir
Yuvraj
Dravid
Dhoni
Pathan
Chawla/Harbhajan
Powar
Zaheer
R.P.Singh
Uthappa(sub)
R.P.Sharma(sub)
Sreesanth(sub)

 

[Nishant]

Sachin
Ganguly
Gambhir
Yuvraj
Dravid
Dhoni
Pathan
Chawla/Harbhajan
Powar
Zaheer
R.P.Singh
Uthappa(sub)
R.P.Sharma(sub)
Sreesanth(sub)

Rohit Sharma is too good to be a sub IMHO...he seems to have great potential....he has to be in the side TBH.....in place of Ganguly!