Pup Clarke
Cricketer Of The Year
Really?, pretty remarkable economy notherless, was back to his usual economical self today.
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Muralitharan a burglar,a thief and a dacoit : Bedi
- Thread starter V Reddy
- Start date
Lostman
State Captain
jayasuriya has done ok as well.
Pup Clarke
Cricketer Of The Year
Another one is Ian Blackwell btw
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
Uh-huh-huh.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
Nah, Jayasuriya's nothing more than a decent part-timer.
For all of his handful of games. Blackwell is very fortunate he hasn't played more, as he'd almost certainly have got the treatment had he done so.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
Well yeah, in 1 game. But he had one good, one awful game in the WC; two horror and one good game in SA at the start of that season; three awful games in the Champions Trophy; three good and three poor games in WI in 2006; and one awful and 3 OK games in the Videocon Series in 2005\06.Really?, pretty remarkable economy notherless, was back to his usual economical self today.
I think the magic of the 2004 and 2004\05 seasons is gone, sadly. Whether for good, we'll find-out eventually.
Pup Clarke
Cricketer Of The Year
Thing is it's extremely difficult i imagine especially for a finger spinner to put in consistent and economical spells, he will inevitably have games where batsmen go after him. It's just about seeing if he can develop variation and consistentcy to counteract attacking batsmen.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
As a spinner, there are ways to stop batsmen going after you (and likely paying for trying). First, obviously, you need accuracy, and loads of fingerspinners have that. Accuracy alone is not enough, however, and there are a few other things you can use to compliment it and use to stop batsmen attacking you (obviously you won't be able to get it right every time, and obviously every now and then batsmen will fluke it when having a swing, but a good bowler will get good figures more often than not).
The best method is to turn it big; however, only wristspinners can do this on non-turning pitches, as fingerspinners don't have the tools to do so. Hence, if a "normal" fingerspinner plays on a non-turning pitch, it's usually very easy to score off him. And of course, the problem is that wristspin is usually very hard to control, so only very special wristspinners (namely Warne and Murali) have harnessed the control and the turn neccessary for ODI success on all surfaces. Many fingerspinners and non-big-turning wristies have had success on slower or turning pitches but not on quicker, less dry ones.
Another method is to bowl consistently very fast and flat: Dharmasena and, until the 1999 WC, Kumble, excelled at this. They usually bowled at at least 60mph, sometimes even quicker, making it hard to come down the pitch to them, but they bowled so flat they weren't often easy to cut either. However, few fingerspinners have ever managed to do this.
Another method, more difficult still, is to bowl a Doosra: Saqlain and Harbhajan did this. Now, though neither Off-Break nor Doosra will turn much on a non-turning pitch, in a game where batsmen are often looking to attack this is often still enough. Saqlain and Harbhajan actually ended-up with very different careers, Saqlain being a big wicket-taker and only reasonably economical; Harbhajan being generally very economical but not a huge wicket-taker (despite occasional sensational hauls). Of course, Saqlain and Harbhajan to boot with their Doosras were skilled flight bowlers, varying flight and length well.
Something Daniel Vettori perhaps does even better still - and he also possesses a borderline sixth-sense and seems sometimes to know better than even the batsmen what shot he's going to attempt. A good thing, too, as Vettori doesn't have a Doosra (though he does of course have an excellent Arm-Ball).
Aside from these, there have been no successful fingerspinners in modern ODI cricket, except possibly Carl Hooper, who I never saw bowl much and don't know the secret of his relative success.
The best method is to turn it big; however, only wristspinners can do this on non-turning pitches, as fingerspinners don't have the tools to do so. Hence, if a "normal" fingerspinner plays on a non-turning pitch, it's usually very easy to score off him. And of course, the problem is that wristspin is usually very hard to control, so only very special wristspinners (namely Warne and Murali) have harnessed the control and the turn neccessary for ODI success on all surfaces. Many fingerspinners and non-big-turning wristies have had success on slower or turning pitches but not on quicker, less dry ones.
Another method is to bowl consistently very fast and flat: Dharmasena and, until the 1999 WC, Kumble, excelled at this. They usually bowled at at least 60mph, sometimes even quicker, making it hard to come down the pitch to them, but they bowled so flat they weren't often easy to cut either. However, few fingerspinners have ever managed to do this.
Another method, more difficult still, is to bowl a Doosra: Saqlain and Harbhajan did this. Now, though neither Off-Break nor Doosra will turn much on a non-turning pitch, in a game where batsmen are often looking to attack this is often still enough. Saqlain and Harbhajan actually ended-up with very different careers, Saqlain being a big wicket-taker and only reasonably economical; Harbhajan being generally very economical but not a huge wicket-taker (despite occasional sensational hauls). Of course, Saqlain and Harbhajan to boot with their Doosras were skilled flight bowlers, varying flight and length well.
Something Daniel Vettori perhaps does even better still - and he also possesses a borderline sixth-sense and seems sometimes to know better than even the batsmen what shot he's going to attempt. A good thing, too, as Vettori doesn't have a Doosra (though he does of course have an excellent Arm-Ball).
Aside from these, there have been no successful fingerspinners in modern ODI cricket, except possibly Carl Hooper, who I never saw bowl much and don't know the secret of his relative success.
Pup Clarke
Cricketer Of The Year
Whoa...
Pup Clarke
Cricketer Of The Year
What's the point of bowling off spin then? 
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
TBH, that's a question I ask many times whenever I think about it.
Perhaps this: it's very often successful at lower levels due to different pitch styles (even in Australia and especially in South Africa), and most players don't start bowling something at the age of 6 or 7 thinking "what about when I get to international level?" - they just bowl what they can bowl well and what works at the time.
Perhaps this: it's very often successful at lower levels due to different pitch styles (even in Australia and especially in South Africa), and most players don't start bowling something at the age of 6 or 7 thinking "what about when I get to international level?" - they just bowl what they can bowl well and what works at the time.
Pup Clarke
Cricketer Of The Year
God, I sometimes wish I was not a spinner tbh.
Pup Clarke
Cricketer Of The Year
Haha, was those rare occasions where I actually got a run up tbh, am useless of 5 paces in the nets. Next meet up, I promise i'll bowl leg breaks all the time.
nightprowler10
Global Moderator
Sometimes I'm really amazed at the bitterness carried over by some respected members on this forum. Just to clarify here (not for the first time either), from all reports from late 2005, Shabbir was doing fine and not bending his arm over the limit through the first inning when he took 4 of his 5 wickets. He started throwing in the second inning (end of day 4) when he got Trescothick. One wicket was all that he took. A case can be made that it may or may not have affected the result, but the point is that his action was fine through the first inning.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
Me, I've always liked Shabbir Ahmed as a bowler and I don't really care that much whether he was throwing it - as tec once said, "he wasn't throwing grenades". However, the implication IIRR was that he was bowling OK elbow-wise at the time when he was offering little threat, then fell back into bad old ways, and begun to be effective.
Why he didn't open the bowling in that first-innings, though, I'll never know.
Why he didn't open the bowling in that first-innings, though, I'll never know.