Top 5 Australian batsman after Bradman.

[howardj]

Well IMO S Waugh > Ponting by a fair bit if you say Border > Waugh.

(As I say, for me both > Ponting but I'm honestly not sure who was best out of them)

As a matter of curiosity: a brief comparison of the bowlers Border and Waugh faced in their successful periods?

Yeah, I'd be interested if you could compile a list. I don't have the skills on Stats Guru that you perhaps do. But yeah, a list would be great thanks.

 

[Richard]

Geez you'd think I don't have enough on my plate...

Will see what I can do, but as I say - won't be until I've done 2 articles, a player profile, and one or two other things...

 

[NUFAN]

Just read on the list that SWaugh averaged just 32.05 in the second innings which is pretty crap for a player who was known to be great in the backs against the wall situation.

I know he did awesome when the score was 4/62 or 3 /52 or something in the first innings but the fact that he couldnt handle the 2nd innings at anything more then an average level is a reason why I wouldn't have him so high up on the list.

 

[Prince EWS]

Just read on the list that SWaugh averaged just 32.05 in the second innings which is pretty crap for a player who was known to be great in the backs against the wall situation.

I know he did awesome when the score was 4/62 or 3 /52 or something in the first innings but the fact that he couldnt handle the 2nd innings at anything more then an average level is a reason why I wouldn't have him so high up on the list.

Perhaps that's because Australia were so often in such a great position in the second innings, particularly if they batted first, that he couldn't inspire himself. He was known as a backs-to-the-wall type player - I guess perhaps he packed it in when he wasn't really needed.

Furthermore, most batsmen who bat in the lower middle order like Waugh did for his whole career will average a lot more in the first innings than the second due to the differing pitch conditions. It's a bit different for openers and top order players, obviously, but you'd probably find lots of lower middle players averaging a lot more in the first innings than the second if you had a look.

 

[howardj]

Yeah, good point Nufan. Though I guess his supporters would counter that the first innings is really when the dye is cast. That he averaged 70 in the first dig, shows that when the game was on the line, he delivered.

 

[Richard]

Just read on the list that SWaugh averaged just 32.05 in the second innings which is pretty crap for a player who was known to be great in the backs against the wall situation.

I know he did awesome when the score was 4/62 or 3 /52 or something in the first innings but the fact that he couldnt handle the 2nd innings at anything more then an average level is a reason why I wouldn't have him so high up on the list.

Perhaps that's because Australia were so often in such a great position in the second innings, particularly if they batted first, that he couldn't inspire himself. He was known as a backs-to-the-wall type player - I guess perhaps he packed it in when he wasn't really needed.

Furthermore, most batsmen who bat in the lower middle order like Waugh did for his whole career will average a lot more in the first innings than the second due to the differing pitch conditions. It's a bit different for openers and top order players, obviously, but you'd probably find lots of lower middle players averaging a lot more in the first innings than the second if you had a look.

And what's more in the second-innings teams, especially those like Australia who were regularly in strong positions, would often be chasing quick runs and (without having looked the case up, as plenty often enough you stereotype like this and it turns-out not to have happened that often) lower-middle-order batsmen have to hit out or get out.

Also, have you looked at his second-innings average 1992\93-2001? I'd be willing to bet it'd be just a bit higher...

 

[howardj]

Top bloke Tugga. He turned us into a ruthless killing machine.

 

[Engle]

IMO, one good measure of a batsman's worth is how well he does on foreign soil

SRW scored 5083 runs at a very decent 55.85, better than GChappell, Ponting, Harvey

 

[Clarence]

genunienle i think anyone who knows anything would agree that stevie waugh owned at digging aussies out of the **** situations...genuine fighter and all that....couldnt done it without him. ponting with his average alone has proven he owns at lige pretty much

1. chappell
2. waugh
3. ponting
4. mad rooter
5. trumper

 

[Beleg]

of those i have seen

1. ponting
2. waugh (s)
3. waugh (m)
4. hayden
5. gilchrist

 

[NUFAN]

genunienle i think anyone who knows anything would agree that stevie waugh owned at digging aussies out of the **** situations...genuine fighter and all that....couldnt done it without him. ponting with his average alone has proven he owns at lige pretty much

1. chappell
2. waugh
3. ponting
4. mad rooter
5. trumper

I'm not saying he wasn't good, he was exceptional in the first innings, however he was quite an average performer at digging us out of situations and just strengthing our situation in the second innings of a test.

Did he ever once save us in the second innings from defeat? We didn't win every match SWaugh played in, so you can't use that as an excuse.

 

[ScreaM]

1.Ponting
2. S Waugh
3. Border
4.Chapell
5.M Waugh

 

[The Sean]

1.Ponting
2. S Waugh
3. Border
4.Chapell
5.M Waugh

Is that just for those players you've seen in action in your lifetime, or do you really rate M Waugh that highly against all other batsmen from history?

 

[JBMAC]

1.Ponting
2. S Waugh
3. Border
4.Chapell
5.M Waugh

You jest of course by including Mark Waugh in that company

 

[silentstriker]

1. Greg Chappell
2. Steve Waugh
3. Ricky Ponting
4. Neil Harvey
5. Allan Border

Bumped this thread as I thought maybe people's impressions have changed.

 

[Ikki]

I can pick the top 2, the rest are too close to mention.

1) Ponting
2) Chappell

for 3rd, 4th and 5th: S Waugh, Gilchrist, Border, Hayden, Harvey, Trumper perhaps too.

Here's my original post in here too:

Who is your 1st?

Mine:

1. G. Chappell
2. Ponting*
3. Harvey
4. Waugh
5. Border

*Ponting will overtake Chappell, I am sure.

 

[silentstriker]

I can pick the top 2, the rest are too close to mention.

1) Ponting
2) Chappell

for 3rd, 4th and 5th: S Waugh, Gilchrist, Border, Hayden, Harvey, Trumper perhaps too.

Here's my original post in here too:

Interesting, since in the time you made the original post, Ponting has only played six Test matches and scored 408 runs at 45.33 with one century. Certainly well below his standards. Why the change?

EDIT: Not trying to have a go anything, but genuinely interested in the reasoning.

 

[Ikki]

Interesting, since in the time you made the original post, Ponting has only played six Test matches and scored 408 runs at 45.33 with one century. Certainly well below his standards. Why the change?

EDIT: Not trying to have a go anything, but genuinely interested in the reasoning.

Because I realised now that at the time that I was setting some pretty lofty standards for Ponting that no one else has reached. I look at it over and over again, subjectively, objectively and I cannot give a real reason why he is not better than the aforementioned. At the time, I was probably a bit biased against him, if not simply just hesitant.

 

[Days of Grace]

According to my ratings

2. Ponting
3. Hussey
4. Hayden
5. Chappell
6. S. Waugh

i.m.o:

Chappell
Ponting
Hayden
Border
S. Waugh

 

[Nutter]

Only picking from players I've seen play in my lifetime

Ricky Ponting
Steve Waugh
Matthew Hayden
Adam Gilchrist
Michael Hussey