Symonds speaks up for Murali

[Richard]

The recollection of that incident still makes me shudder, too.

 

[archie mac]

Not only do they regularly cop it from the Aussie crowd (particularly in Day/Night ODI's), he Lankans players also copped racial abuse from Darren Lehman in '04 as he was walking back to the dressing room after being dismissed.....and Leahman was fined severely.

http://ia.rediff.com/cricket/2003/jan/21dan.htm

I think he was in the dressing room

 

[Richard]

Where he was doesn't for one second excuse what he said, though, surely?

 

[archie mac]

Where he was doesn't for one second excuse what he said, though, surely?

No not for a moment, but Lehmann did say he thought what was said in the dressing room should be left in the dressing room

 

[Richard]

So in other words you should be able to be as slanderous as you want in the dressing-room?

You're aware of exactly what he said, yes? "You black ****s". Not "you Sri Lankan ****s", which would have been, if not nice exactly, something you could say "ah, leave it in the dressing-room".

I don't feel that should ever be thought, never mind said, and I was hugely disappointed when I found that out as I've always absolutely loved Lehmann as a batsman.

 

[archie mac]

So in other words you should be able to be as slanderous as you want in the dressing-room?

You're aware of exactly what he said, yes? "You black ****s". Not "you Sri Lankan ****s", which would have been, if not nice exactly, something you could say "ah, leave it in the dressing-room".

I don't feel that should ever be thought, never mind said, and I was hugely disappointed when I found that out as I've always absolutely loved Lehmann as a batsman.

Yes mate I read his bio (see review on CW), what I am saying is that he did not say it to Definitely upset someone, but did not realsie that he could be heard from the dressing room. I think it much worse if he had meant for the SL team to hear it.

But lets be clear I do not condone what he did

 

[Richard]

The thing is, though, that'd upset me (and, I hope, would have upset pretty much anyone who'd heard it - you don't have to be black or coloured to feel awful upon hearing that), not just those it was aimed at.

It's just plain awful that he'd even think something like that, never mind say anything.

 

[shehanwije]

I think he was in the dressing room

Thats how Lehmann wanted it portrayed...in reality, his spray was made between the walk from the boundary to the dressing room door....the racially abusive words were made within hearing range of the Lankan reserves and management sitting outside their rooms. To their credit, the Lankans did not press charges on Lehmann.

 

[shehanwije]

The thing is, though, that'd upset me (and, I hope, would have upset pretty much anyone who'd heard it - you don't have to be black or coloured to feel awful upon hearing that), not just those it was aimed at.

It's just plain awful that he'd even think something like that, never mind say anything.

Agree with your comments here - its the fact that he used the abusive words that is the issue. Not that he got caught or where he said it.

I am black, but do not get offended if people call me black...what else should they call me? Its the "C- - t" thats the issue....not where he said it or who he said it to.

The comments were not directly said to the Lankan players, they only overheared it...hence why they chose to ignore it and not press charges.

 

[silentstriker]

Yes mate I read his bio (see review on CW), what I am saying is that he did not say it to Definitely upset someone, but did not realsie that he could be heard from the dressing room. I think it much worse if he had meant for the SL team to hear it.

But lets be clear I do not condone what he did

It is irrelevent what he meant it as. If he said it only to upset someone and didn't necessarily mean it isn't worse than actually meaning it and hiding it. There is a type of passive acceptance, or rather a refusal to be outraged when hearing something like that is a major part of the problem. The fact that he played cricket after that irks me to this day.

 

[archie mac]

It is irrelevent what he meant it as. If he said it only to upset someone and didn't necessarily mean it isn't worse than actually meaning it and hiding it. There is a type of passive acceptance, or rather a refusal to be outraged when hearing something like that is a major part of the problem. The fact that he played cricket after that irks me to this day.

I think that is well over the top tbh

He made a mistake (a big one) and said sorry, surely he is entitiled to one more chance, if it happened again then fair enought out for life

Lets not forget that Sir Viv called McDermott a white ....

And Gilly also said he was called the same thing in the WC (not the lattest one)

 

[archie mac]

Thats how Lehmann wanted it portrayed...in reality, his spray was made between the walk from the boundary to the dressing room door....the racially abusive words were made within hearing range of the Lankan reserves and management sitting outside their rooms. To their credit, the Lankans did not press charges on Lehmann.

Where does your information come from?

Yes it was to their credit

 

[silentstriker]

I think that is well over the top tbh

He made a mistake (a big one) and said sorry, surely he is entitiled to one more chance, if it happened again then fair enought out for life

Lets not forget that Sir Viv called McDermott a white ....

And Gilly also said he was called the same thing in the WC (not the lattest one)

If someone calls Gilly a white **** or a similar slur, I have absolutely no problems whatsoever with banning them.

None.

 

[archie mac]

If someone calls Gilly a white **** or a similar slur, I have absolutely no problems whatsoever with banning them.

None.

Well I am not a black man so maybe I do not understand how upsetting this could be

But if someone called one of the Aussies a White... I would not want to see them banned for life on a first offence

 

[roseboy64]

Their wouldn't be as bigh an outrage I'm sure. Some would say it's justified that there wouldn't be outrage.

 

[silentstriker]

Well I am not a black man so maybe I do not understand how upsetting this could be

But if someone called one of the Aussies a White... I would not want to see them banned for life on a first offence

Well, calling someone 'white' is not an offense, like if I tell my black friend that he is black...well it's not much of a revelation. But if they use a slur like 'white ****' or 'black ****', that is way over the line. If you aren't as offended by that slur, that's fine but most people would be. And any country that has any kind of lax attitude towards that stuff is just asking for a reputation (and deservedly so IMO). Especially as it is already a problem that may not be taken as seriously as it should be in Australia.

A quote from that article:

A bay of supporters was decked in patriotic gold shirts at the SCG last summer to watch Australia play Pakistan. Closer inspection of their garb revealed a slogan including the words "Pakis" and "towelheads". The year before Indian supporters were upset to be called "coolies" at Adelaide and in response to the Barmy Army's 2002-03 chants the locals fans responded with "I'd rather be a **** than a Pom". All were probably expat South Africans.

At the Twenty20 international in Brisbane earlier this month a family visiting from Perth wanted only to watch Ricky Ponting bat. They saw him and were excited, but they also heard a group of men behind them speaking quietly about the "monkeys" in South Africa's team before a fight broke out a few rows further back. The punching man was thrown out but the group of old-world attitudes remained. Before the 2003 World Cup Darren Lehmann was banned for yelling "black c****" in a Gabba dressing room after being run out against Sri Lanka. Lehmann's supporters said he was definitely not a racist, but a "good bloke" who was affected by the heat of the moment.

Is there a pattern here, or are there just a lot of South Africans in Australia? The attitudes seem so ingrained they go unnoticed by the users or their sympathisers. The rest of the world sees the damage through international coverage of the recent beach riots at Cronulla, the Tampa boat crisis over refugees in 2001, the policies of the popular One Nation party in the 1990s and its cricket grounds.

However, national immaturity prevents Australia from recognising the racism even though terms such as "Lebs", "blacks" and "Abos" appear in many conversations. Yesterday a sports-loving gentleman at a club morning tea wondered what all the fuss was about: "They've been called kaffirs all their life, why does it matter now?"

You try having that type of clothing saying a racist remark at a sports game in Philadelphia and not only would you be ejected within five minutes...your face would have been re-arranged several times. No, the vast majority of the people aren't racist nor do they condone racism. But refusing to do anything about it, or just accepting it is why it keeps happening.

 

[pasag]

It is irrelevent what he meant it as. If he said it only to upset someone and didn't necessarily mean it isn't worse than actually meaning it and hiding it. There is a type of passive acceptance, or rather a refusal to be outraged when hearing something like that is a major part of the problem. The fact that he played cricket after that irks me to this day.

Disagree, a lifetime ban (if that's what you're advocating) is way OTT when the person in question apologised. Heartfelt apologies and education always > kneejerk reactions like lifetime bannings. I think we had a similar discussion ages ago where you wanted someone who said some anti-semitic comments at your cricket club a while back banned and I advocated a similar thing then as well, for the first offence anyways.

 

[adharcric]

Have to agree with that.

 

[archie mac]

Well, calling someone 'white' is not an offense, like if I tell my black friend that he is black...well it's not much of a revelation. But if they use a slur like 'white ****' or 'black ****', that is way over the line. If you aren't as offended by that slur, that's fine but most people would be. And any country that has any kind of lax attitude towards that stuff is just asking for a reputation (and deservedly so IMO). Especially as it is already a problem that may not be taken as seriously as it should be in Australia.

A quote from that article:


You try having that type of clothing saying a racist remark at a sports game in Philadelphia and not only would you be ejected within five minutes...your face would have been re-arranged several times. No, the vast majority of the people aren't racist nor do they condone racism. But refusing to do anything about it, or just accepting it is why it keeps happening.

I thought the ban DL recieved was 'doing something about it' tbh

 

[silentstriker]

I thought the ban DL recieved was 'doing something about it' tbh

Nowhere near enough IMO.