Ambrose vs. Lillee in Tests. Who was better?

[Richard]

Not the subcontinent crap again

It's not crap, it's simple fact. Lillee does not have performance in the subcontinent to his name. Other bowlers do. This does not mean Lillee was incapable of performing in the subcontinent, but the fact remains nonetheless that he didn't.

And no, the subcontinent (or West Indies) cannot be equated to Australia in any way shape or form, regardless of that fact that some similarities exist.

 

[archie mac]

Plenty of people did have doubts, though, and they were mostly those who looked beyond the image and at the actual output. There were people who could bowl slightly better than Lillee, in several ways, just not people who could convey the image so well in combination with excellent bowling.

Give me one name of a contemporary who did not rate Lillee the best or near enough to it?

So 355 wickets was all for show, and no Bangas or Zims to help the ave

 

[DCC_legend]

Curtley Ambrose for mine.

 

[archie mac]

It's not crap, it's simple fact. Lillee does not have performance in the subcontinent to his name. Other bowlers do. This does not mean Lillee was incapable of performing in the subcontinent, but the fact remains nonetheless that he didn't.

And no, the subcontinent (or West Indies) cannot be equated to Australia in any way shape or form, regardless of that fact that some similarities exist.

He went to Pakistan for one 3 Test series so on that basis he could not bowl

One Test in SL at the end of his career and a serious back injury in the Windies.

I am not having this conversation again, because you never give any ground (although tbf neither do I)

 

[adharcric]

He went to Pakistan for one 3 Test series so on that basis he could not bowl

One Test in SL at the end of his career and a serious back injury in the Windies.

I am not having this conversation again, because you never give any ground (although tbf neither do I)

Bottom line: Lillee is unproven in the subcontinent. That should be held against him in comparisons to bowlers who have done everything he has and are proven in the subcontinent.

 

[archie mac]

Bottom line: Lillee is unproven in the subcontinent. That should be held against him in comparisons to bowlers who have done everything he has and are proven in the subcontinent.

I just don't agree, on that logic Ponting is behind every batsman that performed better in the Subcontinent and did well in Aust. VVS Laxman for example. Murali must also been well behind Shane Warne because he was no good in Aust and about the same in India

 

[silentstriker]

I just don't agree, on that logic Ponting is behind every batsman that performed better in the Subcontinent and did well in Aust.

No, but he is behind every batsman with a similar record who DID perform everywhere he did AND India.

 

[adharcric]

EDIT: SS pretty much nailed it.

 

[Engle]

Lillee performed in far more difficult circumstances.
Overcame back injury, played in WSC cricket, greater opposition (WIndies) and heralded an era in Aus Cricket.
Amby had it comparatively easier, coming after a bunch of fasties paved the way for him (Roberts, Holding, Croft, Garner...)

Even after retirement, Lillee stayed involved with his art.
And Amby...well, he joined the reggae group Dread and the Baldhead with Richie Rich

 

[adharcric]

greater opposition (WIndies)

Can't see how anything else in your post is a genuine argument.

 

[archie mac]

No, but he is behind every batsman with a similar record who DID perform everywhere he did AND India.

He played 3 Tests in Pakistan???

Ponting still rates as a great to me, I could not care whether he scored a ton in India or not, so if Bradman would have played 3 Tests in India and failed we would wipe him? A load of crap this argument, I watched him and he was a great bowler end of story

 

[silentstriker]

He played 3 Tests in Pakistan???

Ponting still rates as a great to me, I could not care whether he scored a ton in India or not, so if Bradman would have played 3 Tests in India and failed we would wipe him?

Yes, if someone else had a 99.94 average and scored everywhere and wasn't crap in India....he would be better than Bradman...

 

[silentstriker]

I watched him and he was a great bowler end of story

Who is denying this?

 

[JBH001]

Haha! Well said SS.

Enough with the Lillee love already...that guy is a little overrated.

(though I do think he was better than Amby)

 

[archie mac]

Who is denying this?

I seem to be losing this argument

I take words such as overated to mean he is not considered a great bowler, but hey that is just me

 

[silentstriker]

I seem to be losing this argument

I take words such as overated to mean he is not considered a great bowler, but hey that is just me

Nah, if people rate Lara better than Bradman, I could say Lara is overrated, but that doesn't mean he wasn't great compared to everyone else. At least, thats how I use the term overrated.

 

[JBH001]

Maybe a little overrated...by some, is a more accurate description.

 

[archie mac]

Maybe a little overrated...by some is a more accurate description.

People with little idea about cricket

 

[JBH001]

I am not sure if you arent being a little too clever with that statement, AM.

lol!

 

[archie mac]

I am not sure if you arent being a little too clever with that statement, AM.

lol!

Clever and myself are rarely used in the same sentance