Boxing thread

[Majin]

I just wondered if there are any other fight fans here on CW? I'm sure there are a couple at least, dunno if there are enough to sustain a thread but I couldn't find one and a general boxing thread couldn't hurt. So yeah, general boxing discussion I guess.

Just watched Arturo "Thunder" Gatti get dominated by Alfonso Gomez and eventually knocked out in the 7th, absolutely loved it. Been a fan of Gomez for a long time and hope this can catapult him onto bigger things. Took the pace from the word go and never let up, shook Gatti from the first round and never looked troubled by any of Gatti's punches. Won every round for mine and deserved the win. Great fight to watch.

 

[Xuhaib]

Amir Khan was made to work hard before beating Scotland's Willie Limond to win the Commonwealth lightweight title.
Khan had looked in control early on in their fight at London's O2 Arena but Limond rocked the 20-year-old in the sixth round, knocking him to the floor.

The Bolton fighter recovered and dug deep to force his opponent to take a count in the next round.

Khan dominated after that and Limond was forced to retire after the eighth round with nose and jaw injuries.

The Athens silver medallist came into the fight with nine knockouts from his 12 pro fights but this was by far his toughest test.

He played a patient game early on and seemed to have a narrow advantage over his more experienced opponent.

Although he picked off Limond with a series of jabs in the second round, the 28-year-old Scot kept Khan on his toes, especially in round five when a right hand connected cleanly.

But the fight sparked into life in the sixth round when Limond seized the upper hand and landed Khan with a volley of punches which sent him sprawling.

Somehow Khan struggled through the remainder of the round and the knock-down seemed to spark him into action.

The seventh round was far more one-sided as Khan backed Limond against the ropes with more hurtful combinations and the champion went down himself.

By the eighth, Limond was on trouble but the Scot refused to give in and had to be withdrawn by his corner, handing Khan the toughest victory of his career.

"The timing just wasn't there," Khan admitted afterwards. "I was over-anxious and wanted to commit myself too much. I was running inside, made a mistake and got caught with the right hand.

"It could have changed the fight but it didn't - it shows I've got a good chin. I just had to compose myself.

"Good fighters go down, come back up and knock the other person down and I did that. I wanted that title more than Willie did."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Great to see him having the pakistan flag on his shorts and pakistani coloured gum shield

 

[BoyBrumby]

Was a really good fight. Fair play to Limond, he was definitely outclassed in terms of boxing skills but he was so brave. His face was a mask of blood at the end.

Nice to see Khan tested properly.

 

[Xuhaib]

Was a really good fight. Fair play to Limond, he was definitely outclassed in terms of boxing skills but he was so brave. His face was a mask of blood at the end..

I've heard Monty and Saj were ringside supporting Khan.

 

[BoyBrumby]

I've heard Monty and Saj were ringside supporting Khan.

Wouldn't surprise me. Especially Saj as he's Amir's first cousin!

 

[Majin]

What channel was that on, out of interest? I missed that. :\

 

[Matteh]

ITV 3 or 4 i think. There's some more stuff on those channels soon as well. Gets promo-ed in the advert breaks during the Tour de France.

 

[Burgey]

I'm a fight fan so hopefully this thread can kick on.

 

[JBMAC]

Controversial??..You Bet!

ESPN's Top 50 Boxers of all time in Ranking.Should provoke some lively discussion



1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Henry Armstrong
4. Joe Louis
5. Willie Pep
6. Roberto Duran
7. Benny Leonard
8. Jack Johnson
9. Jack Dempsey
10. Sam Langford
11. Joe Gans
12. Sugar Ray Leonard
13. Harry Greb
14. Rocky Marciano
15. Jimmy Wilde
16. Gene Tunney
17. Mickey Walker
18. Archie Moore
19. Stanley Ketchel
20. George Foreman
21. Tony Canzoneri
22. Barney Ross
23. Jimmy McLarnin
24. Julio Cesar Chavez
25. Marcel Cerdan
26. Joe Frazier
27. Ezzard Charles
28. Jake LaMotta
29. Sandy Saddler
30. Terry McGovern
31. Billy Conn
32. Jose Napoles
33. Ruben Olivares
34. Emile Griffith
35. Marvin Hagler
36. Eder Jofre
37. Thomas Hearns
38. Larry Holmes
39. Oscar De La Hoya
40. Evander Holyfield
41. Ted "Kid" Lewis
42. Alexis Arguello
43. Marco Antonio Barrera
44. Pernell Whitaker
45. Carlos Monzon
46. Roy Jones Jr.
47. Bernard Hopkins
48. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
49. Erik Morales
50. Mike Tyson

 

[Johnners]

Can't beleive Mundine didn't make it...

Bit of a surprise that Ali isn't no.1 I s'pose

 

[BoyBrumby]

What channel was that on, out of interest? I missed that. :\

It was on ITV1 or was in the Anglian tv region at least.

WRT to the 50 best fighters I'm somewhat surprised to see no Lennox Lewis. To be honest I'd not familiar with the work of a lot of the guys listed, but given Holyfield is ranked @ 40 & Lewis disposed of him fairly comfortably (even if the first fight was shockingly scored as a draw) you'd have thought he should be in there somewhere.

 

[Majin]

Going by the list, I'm surprised by how low down Rocky Marciano is on the list. 49-49-0 with 43 knockouts is hardly something to sniff at. I wonder what they used to decide their rankings.

 

[Goughy]

Going by the list, I'm surprised by how low down Rocky Marciano is on the list. 49-49-0 with 43 knockouts is hardly something to sniff at. I wonder what they used to decide their rankings.

The list looks very American dominated.

Marciano is always an interesting question. Its impossible to argue with his record but many of his fights were hand-picked (though he was certainly not the only one to do that) and the calibre of figher he entered the ring against wasnt always of the highest quality.

Ali is another very interesting fighter as it is virtually impossible for people to divorce him being one of the greatest cultural icons of the 20th century from his actaul abilities as a boxer (which were certainly considerable but often his failings and faults are overlooked due to his revered status). The best thing about Ali is that he ducked noone and took on virtually allcomers. However there are many things that are often overlooked such as his career was over very early compared to modern fighters, allegations of rigged fights (again certainly not the only one), losing his speed early in his career and getting by on a solid chin and heart rather than the 'legendary' skill, looking very ordinary against 3rd rate fighters, entering fights (eg Foreman) as a heavy underdog, gamesmanship etc, losing to Spinks and others. etc.

Something like this is very difficult to rank to the agreement of all. From my POV Im disappointed to see Hagler so low.

 

[Agent TBY]

Ippo for the win.

 

[steds]

ESPN's Top 50 Boxers of all time in Ranking.Should provoke some lively discussion



1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Henry Armstrong
4. Joe Louis
5. Willie Pep
6. Roberto Duran
7. Benny Leonard
8. Jack Johnson
9. Jack Dempsey
10. Sam Langford
11. Joe Gans
12. Sugar Ray Leonard
13. Harry Greb
14. Rocky Marciano
15. Jimmy Wilde
16. Gene Tunney
17. Mickey Walker
18. Archie Moore
19. Stanley Ketchel
20. George Foreman
21. Tony Canzoneri
22. Barney Ross
23. Jimmy McLarnin
24. Julio Cesar Chavez
25. Marcel Cerdan
26. Joe Frazier
27. Ezzard Charles
28. Jake LaMotta
29. Sandy Saddler
30. Terry McGovern
31. Billy Conn
32. Jose Napoles
33. Ruben Olivares
34. Emile Griffith
35. Marvin Hagler
36. Eder Jofre
37. Thomas Hearns
38. Larry Holmes
39. Oscar De La Hoya
40. Evander Holyfield
41. Ted "Kid" Lewis
42. Alexis Arguello
43. Marco Antonio Barrera
44. Pernell Whitaker
45. Carlos Monzon
46. Roy Jones Jr.
47. Bernard Hopkins
48. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
49. Erik Morales
50. Mike Tyson

Apollo Creed got royally shafted there, one feels.

 

[DCC_legend]

Watched a re-run of the Gatti - Gomez fight yesterday. Gomez was in rampant form, Arturo Gatti never threatened a come back.

 

[Majin]

Ippo for the win.

Damn straight.

The list looks very American dominated.

Marciano is always an interesting question. Its impossible to argue with his record but many of his fights were hand-picked (though he was certainly not the only one to do that) and the calibre of figher he entered the ring against wasnt always of the highest quality.

Ali is another very interesting fighter as it is virtually impossible for people to divorce him being one of the greatest cultural icons of the 20th century from his actaul abilities as a boxer (which were certainly considerable but often his failings and faults are overlooked due to his revered status). The best thing about Ali is that he ducked noone and took on virtually allcomers. However there are many things that are often overlooked such as his career was over very early compared to modern fighters, allegations of rigged fights (again certainly not the only one), losing his speed early in his career and getting by on a solid chin and heart rather than the 'legendary' skill, looking very ordinary against 3rd rate fighters, entering fights (eg Foreman) as a heavy underdog, gamesmanship etc, losing to Spinks and others. etc.

Something like this is very difficult to rank to the agreement of all. From my POV Im disappointed to see Hagler so low.

Yeah, Ali is definitely an interesting case. Though, it's sort of like Boycs in that we don't know how his career might have gone if he hadn't been out of the sport for 3 years or so, IIRC. He definitely fell by the wayside in his later fights, that's for sure. But then again, I think personally I would rank getting through fights on his chin and heart is just as good as winning technically brilliantly. I don't know, maybe it's just me, but his "rope-a-dope" technique that he employed in later fights, which took a tremendous toll on him, it was admirable for the guts it must have taken to go in there with people like Foreman and fighting that way. But yeah I see where you're coming from with the separating the legendary status from the actual reality.

And regarding Marciano, I had suspected as much, but like you said it's a record that is impossible to argue with, like we hear with Cricket so much these days, you can only beat whoever is put in front of you. But yeah, to be honest I'm pretty new to boxing, or at least I have only recently started really getting interested in it and stuff, so my views are that of a total novice so I apologise in advance if I appear to be talking out of my arse.

Edit: And yeah, typical crap from the media, bigging up Gatti and virtually ignoring Gomez pre-fight and then going on about how Gatti was too old and washed up and crap afterwards. Totally taking away from the fact that Gomez put on a clinical display in that fight, dominated through seven rounds.

Also the Kermit Cintron fight before that was pretty explosive and fun to watch, I really like the look of that guy from what I've seen of him. Really strong, and his ability to throw cross-counters almost at will really impressed me.

 

[JBMAC]

Apollo Creed got royally shafted there, one feels.

 

[Burgey]

Yeah, Ali is definitely an interesting case. Though, it's sort of like Boycs in that we don't know how his career might have gone if he hadn't been out of the sport for 3 years or so, IIRC. He definitely fell by the wayside in his later fights, that's for sure. But then again, I think personally I would rank getting through fights on his chin and heart is just as good as winning technically brilliantly. I don't know, maybe it's just me, but his "rope-a-dope" technique that he employed in later fights, which took a tremendous toll on him, it was admirable for the guts it must have taken to go in there with people like Foreman and fighting that way. But yeah I see where you're coming from with the separating the legendary status from the actual reality.

Thing about Ali, though, was his ability to think so clearly when fighting some seriously dangerous opponents.

By all reports, he intended to take Foreman on by doing a number on him with his jab, but realised after 1 round the ring was too slow and he'd tire too much, so he reverted to what seemed like lunacy - letting arguably the heaviest puncher in the history of the division to that time beat on him until he got tired. That's gutsy.

He really had two careers - pre lay-off and post lay-off. Ali pre-lay off was as fast a fighter as there's ever been in heavyweights. Post lay off he lost a lot of his speed, but developed/ discovered how great his heart and chin were.

Nevertheless, what you say is right. It's almost impossible not to let your judgment of him be clouded by his iconic social/ political status .

 

[Xuhaib]

Thaxton challenges 'chinny' Khan

Khan was given a rough time by Scotland's Limond
British lightweight champion Jon Thaxton has challenged Amir Khan to a fight and questioned the newly-crowned Commonwealth champion's chin.
Khan, 20, was floored by Scotland's Willie Limond on Saturday on his way to claiming his first major title.

Thaxton said: "He's said a lot about me in the press, disrespected me, so now it's time for him to step up the plate.

"There have always been question marks about his ability to take a punch, now I'm convinced that he's got no chin."

Olympic silver medallist Khan captured the Commonwealth belt when Limond failed to emerge for the ninth round at the O2 Arena in London, but only after climbing off the canvas and surviving some torrid moments of his own in the sixth.

He's getting knocked out the first big punch I land, I would get the job done properly

Jonathan Thaxton

And Norwich's Thaxton added: "I've got the British title, he's got the Commonwealth title, so let's do things the old-fashioned way and put them both on the line.

"If he says yes, the fight can happen. My promoter Mick Hennessy wants to make the big fights, so we aren't going to let politics get in the way of things.

"I'm not going to hide behind my promoter, we will happily go and box on one of their shows."

Thaxton, 32, made the first defence of his British title with a stoppage of English champion Scott Lawton in March and he is convinced he would have the measure of Khan.

"He was floored heavily by someone I consider a light puncher, someone who gave up his status as mandatory contender to my British title," said Thaxton.

"He's getting knocked out the first big punch I land. I would get the job done properly, I wouldn't let him off the hook. I think he was one punch away from being stopped.

"He's got a bit to prove now and I am giving him the opportunity to fight for the British title against the number one lightweight in Britain.

"He has disrespected a few fighters. He's been talking about being ready for a world title by the time he's 21. I don't believe he's even good enough to win a British title."