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***Official*** India in England

Richard

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
GeraintIsMyHero said:
LOL I associate Jono with tait now
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Ind33d, me too, and I don't want to. No-one should ever become an avatar from a challenge (and it's a well-known fact that CWers do become their avatars if they keep long-ish ones of other humans). I've been wanting Jono to change back to Tendulkar for ages, and now is surely the ideal opportunity.
 
Pratters

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
pup11 said:
Bresnan and Broad frustrating Indian bowlers shouldn't come as a suprise to anyone, India has always struggled to finish off team in the past too because they don't have a genuine wicket taker in their ranks, but still one has to really appreciate the knocks of both Bresnan and Broad. This is probably a sign of things to come for India later on this tour. I seriously think Indian bowling is gonna let them down big time on this tour.
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adharcric said:
Kumble is not a genuine wicket-taker?
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Richard said:
Not on a pitch not receptive to spin.
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adharcric said:
We shall see.
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Richard said:
We already have, for the last 17 years.
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Richard, Kumble doesn't work on turn, he works on uneven bounce. So whether a pitch is receptive to spin or not is not relevant to him at all!

He has a poor record abroad over all but that is unrelated to the abroad pitches being receptive to spin or not. They have even bounce whereas Indian pitches haven't had them, thus the huge contrast.

home 56 3090.2 7706 325 10/74 14/149 23.71 2.49 57.0 24 7
away 59 2883 8073 227 8/141 12/279 35.56 2.80 76.2 9 1

If receptive to spin was the criteria, he would have had immense success in a place like Sri Lanka or Pakistan:

In Sri Lanka 6 330.2 939 22 5/87 8/172 42.68 2.84 90.0 1
in Pakistan 6 273.3 1018 24 6/72 8/172 42.41 3.72 68.3 1 0

Also, if you mean success abroad, he has had success abroad from India's tour of Australia 2003-04.

Kumble abroad excluding tests v Zimbabwe and Bangladesh from then on:

Border-Gavaskar Trophy (Aus/Ind) in Australia, 2003/04 [Series]
- 3 206.1 710 24 8/141 12/279 29.58 3.44 51.5 3 1
India in Pakistan, 2003/04 [Series]
Ind 3 130.3 389 15 6/72 8/172 25.93 2.98 52.2 1 0
India in West Indies, 2006 [Series]
Ind 4 223.1 658 23 6/78 7/110 28.60 2.94 58.2 1 0
India in South Africa, 2006/07 [Series]
SA 3 134 346 14 4/117 5/56 24.71 2.58 57.4 0 0

From the above, you can see that Kumble is a much improved bowler who doesn't have to rely on uneven bounce any more any ways.
 
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Richard

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Pakistan doesn't neccessarily produce turning pitches at all. Certainly, most of the Tests he's played there have been on incredibly flat wickets.

All bowlers profit from uneven bounce. But you're not going to get too far as a bowler who's only effective when there's uneven bounce, because most Test pitches don't tend to be all that uneven. For someone who spins the ball, though, the more receptive a wicket is to spin, the better.

Kumble, however, is a very unusual bowler in that his primary spin is topspin. Hence, he gets more bounce the more receptive a pitch is to spin. And has more potential to use spin, and variation in it, to vary the bounce.

His record in Sri Lanka, meanwhile - am I right in saying that most of his Tests there were in that insane series in 1997 on what could be called the flattest pitches in history? Where even Murali made virtually no impact?

EDIT: absolutely no doubts whatsoever that Kumble has improved as a bowler in the last 3-4 years. None at all. But still, on a pitch which is not spin-receptive, I'd back a good batting-line-up to play him. Witness, for example, Nagpur in 2005\06, and the preceding Pakistan series.
 
Pratters

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
Richard said:
All bowlers profit from uneven bounce. But you're not going to get too far as a bowler who's only effective when there's uneven bounce, because most Test pitches don't tend to be all that uneven. For someone who spins the ball, though, the more receptive a wicket is to spin, the better.

Kumble, however, is a very unusual bowler in that his primary spin is topspin. Hence, he gets more bounce the more receptive a pitch is to spin. And has more potential to use spin, and variation in it, to vary the bounce.
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Kumble relied on uneven bounce, not spin. A pitch can have uneven bounce and not support much spin. On the other hand, a pitch can support spin and not have uneven bounce. Utilising uneven bounce is not related to utilising turn which a pitch offers.

But still, on a pitch which is not spin-receptive, I'd back a good batting-line-up to play him.
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His performances in last 4-5 years prove you wrong. We would mean normal pitches though, not flat tracks where almost no one usually performs.
 
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sohummisra

sohummisra

U19 Debutant
It was a scrumptious innings from Sachin yesterday and one that kept me glued to my TV for most of the day. I was particularly happy that he was happy to go after the bowlers rather than stick around and be kept quiet by them.

Sunny mentioned on air something about him changing his stance to be more upright and hence his drives are better hit. Don't know much about that, but it seems like it has worked well. What makes me happy is that he looked in similar from against South Africa in the 2nd ODI, so hopefully this classic form wasn't just reserved for the tour match.

We shall see in 4 days. :)
 
P

Pup Clarke

Cricketer Of The Year
The England squad for the 1st has been announced...

Michael Vaughan (c)
James Anderson
Ian Bell
Stuart Broad
Alastair Cook
Paul Collingwood
Steve Harmison
Matthew Hoggard
Monty Panesar
Kevin Pietersen
Matt Prior (wkt)
Ryan Sidebottom
Andrew Strauss

No too sure why Broad's in there tbh. I would actually like a bowler to be in form when selected. Silverwood wouldn't have been a bad choice tbh and I'd have liked to have seen him in there.
 
NZTailender

NZTailender

I can't believe I ate the whole thing
Anyone want to think up an avatar challenge for me in regards to my favourite players in this series? Ian Bell, Paul Collingwood, Matthew Hoggard, Sourav Ganguly, Sachin Tendulkar and Rahul Dravid.
 
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