***Official** West Indies in England***

[Richard]

IMO Morton did his job well, but I thought it was pretty awful to watch. Along with Hayden as a player I depsise watching because of lack of grace.

And along with Gayle, should have been out early if our fielders could catch.

 

[TT Boy]

Richard, I missed a lot of things it would seem. Although, I’ve really missed one thing and that is with you on ignore.

 

[Scaly piscine]

No, they couldn't, and didn't.

Collingwood bowled his first 4 for 14 before the assault started, oh wait I already said that and you conveniently ignored it. There's also Panesar who if you took out his Power Play over went for under 4 an over. Anyone who's had the misfortune to catch plenty of ODI cricket knows anyone who avoids bowling really horrible deliveries will be relatively economical bowling in the middle overs generally (particularly if they have subtle variations) - so those that tend to bowl in those middle overs (often spinners like Vettori, Panesar, Harbhajan for example) will generally have lower economy rates and higher bowling averages (less risks taken) than others.

Mascarenhas' international Twenty20 economy rate is above 10 he's not the ultimate untouchable medium pacer the international cricket world has been missing for the past decade or so.

 

[Swervy]

Yes. You've evidently failed to grasp the pyschology of the situation. The biggest reason Ealham was dropped was because he was perceived as a "bits-and-pieces player", and there was a time (despite Jeremy Snape, the ultimate bits-and-pieces player, playing at it) when everyone was desperate to be seen not to be picking said players. Had Ealham not been a batsman of any skill whatsoever he'd not have had the tag, and would have been regarded as what he was - a high-class specialist bowler. Sadly, his small amount of ability with the bat actually counted against him.

And that's as big a load of nonsense as I've ever read. Ealham at the domestic level was one of the better bowlers going around, in the First-Class game never mind the one-day. He's not, quite, as good as Mullally, but it's not anywhere near as large a gap as you suggest.

Had the selectors had sanity, too, of course, he'd have been in contention for a ODI place, as all good economical bowlers are.

utter tosh

 

[Swervy]

Before this series the West Indies were the only international class side that we could beat (Champions Trophy and World Cup), so to lose at home is an embarrassment in my book. But like Collingwood I’m sure you found plenty of positives.

nah not many positives

 

[Richard]

utter tosh

What an impossibly sound rebuttal.





(Sarcasm)

 

[Swervy]

What an impossibly sound rebuttal.





(Sarcasm)

I think it sums up my thought quite sweetly, no more need be said

 

[Richard]

Collingwood bowled his first 4 for 14 before the assault started, oh wait I already said that and you conveniently ignored it. There's also Panesar who if you took out his Power Play over went for under 4 an over. Anyone who's had the misfortune to catch plenty of ODI cricket knows anyone who avoids bowling really horrible deliveries will be relatively economical bowling in the middle overs generally (particularly if they have subtle variations) - so those that tend to bowl in those middle overs (often spinners like Vettori, Panesar, Harbhajan for example) will generally have lower economy rates and higher bowling averages (less risks taken) than others.

Mascarenhas' international Twenty20 economy rate is above 10 he's not the ultimate untouchable medium pacer the international cricket world has been missing for the past decade or so.

I couldn't give a stuff about someone's Twenty20 economy-rate, virtually no-one's untouchable in that format, which is why the game's so uninteresting.

Congratulations on both looking solely at this one game, and at a tiny matter of a whole 4 overs. Anyone can bowl 4 half-decent overs, bowling two full spells is a rather different matter. Yes, very obviously you have a better chance of bowling economically in the non-Powerplay overs in the first 40, but for those who actually pay attention it's fairly obvious that it's no straightforward task to go for a decent rate, it takes far more than simply "avoiding bowling really horrible deliveries".

 

[Richard]

I think it sums up my thought quite sweetly, no more need be said

Well I'm sorry, I'm afraid I think I presented a rather more convincing case than you did. If you think I'm wrong about Ealham's biggest problem being the fact that he was perceived as a bits-and-pieces player, you are incorrect, because it's pretty obvious (and I did actually take careful note of the case, as in case you missed it I actually quite rate Ealham as a ODI bowler) that what I said was indeed the case.

 

[Swervy]

Well I'm sorry, I'm afraid I think I presented a rather more convincing case than you did. If you think I'm wrong about Ealham's biggest problem being the fact that he was perceived as a bits-and-pieces player, you are incorrect, because it's pretty obvious (and I did actually take careful note of the case, as in case you missed it I actually quite rate Ealham as a ODI bowler) that what I said was indeed the case.

he was perceived as a bits and pieces player, because he was. He wasnt of international class in either batting or bowling. He had some good bowling days out granted , but he wasnt all that good in fact. Certainly someone who would have gotten eaten alive these days I think

 

[Richard]

You think wrong, then. The reason bowlers are getting eaten alive so much these days is because of a lack of bowlers like Ealham.

Because people are so reluctant to pick ODI-class economical bowlers like Ealham these days, especially if they can bat a bit, you instead get rubbish like Sajid Mahmood playing.

 

[Swervy]

You think wrong, then. The reason bowlers are getting eaten alive so much these days is because of a lack of bowlers like Ealham.

Because people are so reluctant to pick ODI-class economical bowlers like Ealham these days, especially if they can bat a bit, you instead get rubbish like Sajid Mahmood playing.

you are totally over playing Ealhams worth, he had a pretty decent spell of a few games, but really he was pretty average in the whole scheme of things.

I think you have your late 90s tinted galsses on again Richard

 

[Richard]

Given that most of Ealham's games I watched were from 2000 onwards, no.

He had far, far more than "a few decent games": almost half his career, in fact, was damn superb, and the other half was hardly shabby, either.

And in any case, it's hardly unreasonable to rate the late 1990s as better than most of the time from 2001 onwards for England in ODIs - there's little doubt we were far better at that point than we have been the last 6 years.

 

[Pup Clarke]

Haha, you do know it is 1am Rich?.

 

[Richard]

Cripes, so it is. Beddybyes for me.

 

[Pup Clarke]

Better be up nice and early for t' roses match tomorrow.

 

[fishyguy]

Hurray for the Windies. This England ODI squad is pretty bad. They might think about getting Strauss,Vaughn and Trescothick back. Its amazing how England blow a$$ in ODI cricket. WI really need to work on their fitness to get competitive in Test cricket and they need a quality spinner. The most outa shape player in the tests was Collymore.

I wonder who they're gonna let go once Sarwan comes back. I'm guessing Devon Smith but then who will open. Shiv aint cuz they want a player who will partner Gayle in the future. I'm still not too sure about Dwane Smith either. Might want to replace him with Sammy unless Smith can bat. Either than that the bowling attack is looking pretty solid.

I'm still pissed at Darren Powell for the way he bowled against SA in the WC when AB DeVilliers took him to town. He looked like an f'ing ****** bowling length deliveries over and over again as AB hit then to all parts of the ground. He'll have to get a few more match winning performances in if he is to redeem himself in my book. I was still preferring Jerome Taylor but Taylor's still young and he has potential. I am happiest for Fidel Edwards. Hopefully he can be injury free and be consistent.

WI have some really tough tours coming up though with Sl and SA. Hoping they can perform well and win.

 

[social]

Thankfully, this god-awful match-up is now over.

With few notable exceptions, the standard of play from both teams has been depressingly bad for the entire summer.

Hopefully the Indians will expose the English attack for the tripe it actually is because their test attack shouldnt threaten anybody of international class IMO

 

[Perm]

Thankfully, this god-awful match-up is now over.

With few notable exceptions, the standard of play from both teams has been depressingly bad for the entire summer.

Hopefully the Indians will expose the English attack for the tripe it actually is because their test attack shouldnt threaten anybody of international class IMO

Haha, so harsh.

 

[wpdavid]

Mascarenhas could have bowled out but it wouldn't have made any difference. The reason Mascarenhas has a good ER is because of when he bowled, the other bowlers would have kept it tight in the middle overs as well with the men back and little aggression from the batsmen - practically anyone could have done a job like he did. Collingwood's first 4 overs went for 14 for instance.

Mascarenhas and Panesar are 'middle over specialists' - except these middle overs get less and less with each new set of ICC changes. England should only have room for one out and out bowler like this and given how generally poor Panesar has been bowling, fielding and batting he should be the one to go. His contribution is negligible.

For this form of the game, I actually agree with you about Panesar. He hasn't been nearly as effective as hoped, maybe because, by definition, he's always bowling on first day wickets in these games. You couldn't honestly say that Yardy would be significantly worse with the ball, and our lower order would be immeasurably better in these games if we included a bowler who isn't two places too high batting at 7 or 8. Panesar's fielding is arguably more of an issue in odis too. Not that it would have changed the result yesterday, but if we get enough of the little things right, then things will at least head in the right direction.

.