Should Afridi be in or out?

[Xuhaib]

I was just going through a very heated discussion about Afridi's place in the Pakistan team at the Pak Passion forums. The two parties (Afridi Fan-boys and Afrifd bashers) both came up with some really valid arguments.

Now I am neither an Afridi fan or an Afridi hater but one thing is for sure whenever this guy is on the field he makes things happen. A thing that really surprised me was his bowling record since jan 2003 .

56 Ms -- 1059 runs @ 23.53 avg -- 69 wkts @ 27.46 avg

I feel his bowling alone gurantees him a place in the team and puts him at par with guys like Vettori, Brad Hogg and Harbhajan Singh. He should be made to bat at 7 or 8 and anything he does with the bat should be considered a bonus.

 

[iamdavid]

As a fan I want him picked everytime, but for the sake of the Pakistani team I'm not sure which way to go.
He's shown that when on song he can hold down a place as batsman or bowler alone (his test batting numbers from 2004 onwards hinted at his potential value when more restraint is shown)..and as you point out his bowling of late has statistically been pretty good, Ive always liked the look of him as a one day bowler. And he's a brilliant fieldsman. Problem is there are two other players who fill similar roles (razzaq and the skipper) which means three players competing for two spots or effectively Afridi competing with Razzaq for one.
I think at this stage he's worth a place in the side in the role you put forward as a late middle order hitter and middle overs spinner...put 100% faith in him and give him an extended run in the side as a senior player with a settled role, and see if the confidence(not that this has ever been a problem) and security results in more consistent performances.

 

[Richard]

I despaired of Afridi as a batsman long ago, TBH, and I'd prefer see things put to bed sooner rather than later. I honestly think having an eternal question like his hanging around the team does Pakistan more harm than good.

If I could ensure him dropped for eternity I would, but his bowling changes the picture - perhaps unfortunately.

 

[Craig]

Isn't there rumours that he is a disruptive influence in the team?

 

[Richard]

A personality like his is hard not to be IMO. As I say - along with the perennial "will he, won't he?" question.

I'd personally argue that Pakistan cricket would have been better off if Shahid Afridi had never picked-up a cricket bat and ball and had turned his hand to hockey or something. No-one, and I mean no-one, better epitomises the chaos that has often been Pakistan's game the last 15 years or so.

 

[Poker Boy]

TBH I'm amazed at his bowling record - I reckon they should just pick him as a spinner and bat him at No 11 where he can't gift the oppositon an early wicket (I'd hate to be No 3 when he is opening!) and if they do need say 6 to win with 1 wicket left at least he'd be better equiped for it than Kaneria!

 

[Pup Clarke]

The thing that's so frustrating about Afridi imo is that he can play cricket shots unlike for eg Ashraful or Aftab. For some reason he's got a pretty decent test record and an abysmal od batting record. He may be worth a go in tests as second spinner and batting at 6 or 7.

 

[Richard]

The reason for his decent Test record with the bat is obvious - where he succeeds he gets another go, where he fails it's never long before he's dropped. So where most players would play 6 or 7 poor Tests before being dropped, he usually just has to play 2 or 3. So his average doesn't go down the way it would for others.

There are undoubtedly many, many better long-form batsmen in Pakistan than Afridi, no-one, surely, can possibly deny that.

 

[Pup Clarke]

There are undoubtedly many, many better long-form batsmen in Pakistan than Afridi, no-one, surely, can possibly deny that.

Yep, probably can name about a dozen first class batsmen who I would rely on much more than Afridi.

 

[andyc]

The thing that's so frustrating about Afridi imo is that he can play cricket shots unlike for eg Ashraful or Aftab. For some reason he's got a pretty decent test record and an abysmal od batting record. He may be worth a go in tests as second spinner and batting at 6 or 7.

Bit harsh.

 

[Pup Clarke]

Cameron, that's one innings ffs!!!!!. Look at the bigger picture.

 

[Xuhaib]

Isn't there rumours that he is a disruptive influence in the team?

Possibily but atm its just a rumour, have got a feeling he overrates himself as a player and considers himself as one of the more important member of the team and thats why he tries to get involved in some of the team affairs.

 

[CricketMan01]

I was just going through a very heated discussion about Afridi's place in the Pakistan team at the Pak Passion forums. The two parties (Afridi Fan-boys and Afrifd bashers) both came up with some really valid arguments.

Now I am neither an Afridi fan or an Afridi hater but one thing is for sure whenever this guy is on the field he makes things happen. A thing that really surprised me was his bowling record since jan 2003 .

56 Ms -- 1059 runs @ 23.53 avg -- 69 wkts @ 27.46 avg

I feel his bowling alone gurantees him a place in the team and puts him at par with guys like Vettori, Brad Hogg and Harbhajan Singh. He should be made to bat at 7 or 8 and anything he does with the bat should be considered a bonus.

In the ODI games i am 100% behind Shahid Afridi although i don't think he should be in the test team. In my opinion he should be one of the first names on the list in the twenty20 world cup and should bat 3 or 4.

 

[Shaggy Alfresco]

Bit harsh.

I stopped watching as soon as Mark Nicholas started fornicating. What a ****.

AMAZING CRICKET SHOT

 

[Manee]

Based on performances, Afridi should be in the ODI team since his averages point to a more than adequate bowling all rounder since January 2003. However, most bowling all rounders would win one or two matches but he in his career has scored 28 fifties and 4 hundreds. Since most of his scores above 10 are scored at about 1.5 runs per ball, we can assume that about half of these innings helped win the match. That is 32/2 = 16 matches he could have won singlehandedly. That is about 6% of his matches for everyone's information. This is quite valuable if you ask me. Not only this, but rarely does he waste time at the crease, I doubt a slow sluggish 20 by him would ever happen and lose his team the match.

Here is a match winning innings by him: http://uk.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/2004-05/PAK_IN_IND/SCORECARDS/PAK_IND_ODI5_15APR2005.html. 102 off 46!

Opening, as he did most of his career, he was not too shabby, averaging a solid 24:

Opening              141  141   1  3484 109  108* 102   24.88   3  22  12
3rd position          16   16   1   407 102   62   55*  27.13   1   2   3
4th position           4    4   0    37  17   17    3    9.25   0   0   1
5th position          10   10   2   163  45*  31   29   20.37   0   0   0
6th position          13   13   2   225  77*  40   33   20.45   0   1   2
7th position          17   17   3   254  73*  37   34   18.14   0   1   0
8th position          24   24   2   457  58   56*  48   20.77   0   2   2
9th position           2    2   0    29  26    3    -   14.50   0   0   0
10th position          1    1   0    16  16    -    -   16.00   0   0   0

Quite the versatile batsman too, going in several places and doing fine all over, he does the role given and expected of him.

Then there is the matter that he is 27 years old, his career is far from retirement. Can a good coach tame him somewhat to take advantage of the powerplays or help his shot selection, choosing what balls to hit and what to defend. If he opens, why not give the simple advice to hit the half volleys and short balls but to be wary of anything else (this just being an example of simple advice, not specific to Afridi).

His bowling does not have the same effect, but it fills the vital fifth bowler void which India have fell so often to. This is a silent contribution as going for under five runs per over could be invaluable when a part timer(s) could go for 5, 6, 7 runs per over and also allow the batsman to relax at the other end, by bowling relatviely tightly, he can pile the pressure, especially in the vital middle overs. He also draws in the crowds, which is essential to the spirit of cricket, but this should not affect his selection.

In or out, I say in, any cricketer who can silently get through 10 overs for few runs and at the same time strike fear in the opposing team with the bat should be in the team. Crowds are ruthless, they have given up on Tendulkar, but why not Afridi? Because Afridi does what he says on the box..."BOOM BOOM", and anyone who doesn't appreciate that can drop him and they should, but rest assured, he will not change.

 

[Richard]

Possibily but atm its just a rumour, have got a feeling he overrates himself as a player and considers himself as one of the more important member of the team and thats why he tries to get involved in some of the team affairs.

Exactly. That's presumably where him being disruptive comes from.

 

[Richard]

Based on performances, Afridi should be in the ODI team since his averages point to a more than adequate bowling all rounder since January 2003. However, most bowling all rounders would win one or two matches but he in his career has scored 28 fifties and 4 hundreds. Since most of his scores above 10 are scored at about 1.5 runs per ball, we can assume that about half of these innings helped win the match. That is 32/2 = 16 matches he could have won singlehandedly. That is about 6% of his matches for everyone's information. This is quite valuable if you ask me. Not only this, but rarely does he waste time at the crease, I doubt a slow sluggish 20 by him would ever happen and lose his team the match.

Here is a match winning innings by him: http://uk.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/2004-05/PAK_IN_IND/SCORECARDS/PAK_IND_ODI5_15APR2005.html. 102 off 46!

Opening, as he did most of his career, he was not too shabby, averaging a solid 24:

Opening              141  141   1  3484 109  108* 102   24.88   3  22  12
3rd position          16   16   1   407 102   62   55*  27.13   1   2   3
4th position           4    4   0    37  17   17    3    9.25   0   0   1
5th position          10   10   2   163  45*  31   29   20.37   0   0   0
6th position          13   13   2   225  77*  40   33   20.45   0   1   2
7th position          17   17   3   254  73*  37   34   18.14   0   1   0
8th position          24   24   2   457  58   56*  48   20.77   0   2   2
9th position           2    2   0    29  26    3    -   14.50   0   0   0
10th position          1    1   0    16  16    -    -   16.00   0   0   0

Quite the versatile batsman too, going in several places and doing fine all over, he does the role given and expected of him.

Then there is the matter that he is 27 years old, his career is far from retirement. Can a good coach tame him somewhat to take advantage of the powerplays or help his shot selection, choosing what balls to hit and what to defend. If he opens, why not give the simple advice to hit the half volleys and short balls but to be wary of anything else (this just being an example of simple advice, not specific to Afridi).

His bowling does not have the same effect, but it fills the vital fifth bowler void which India have fell so often to. This is a silent contribution as going for under five runs per over could be invaluable when a part timer(s) could go for 5, 6, 7 runs per over and also allow the batsman to relax at the other end, by bowling relatviely tightly, he can pile the pressure, especially in the vital middle overs. He also draws in the crowds, which is essential to the spirit of cricket, but this should not affect his selection.

In or out, I say in, any cricketer who can silently get through 10 overs for few runs and at the same time strike fear in the opposing team with the bat should be in the team. Crowds are ruthless, they have given up on Tendulkar, but why not Afridi? Because Afridi does what he says on the box..."BOOM BOOM", and anyone who doesn't appreciate that can drop him and they should, but rest assured, he will not change.

I think people overrate his he-scores-fast value myself. A quick 21 won't do much to contribute to a victory. Certainly a quick 13 won't.

24 is a dreadful average. Afridi is a terrible batsman, wherever he bats. He completely lacks a brain with a bat in hands. Had his career been based on batting alone he'd probably have been - rightly - regarded as a complete joke and sunk without trace long ago, never getting anywhere near the international level and possibly not the domestic either.

His bowling, meanwhile, while effective of times, has never been anything especially remarkable. I'll analyse it a bit more when I get the chance.

One final thing: is he really just 27? Maybe, but don't forget he took ODI cricket by storm when supposedly just 16. Heck, even Sachin Tendulkar couldn't do it at that age. If he couldn't, there's no reason Shahid Afridi could. I can't shake the feeling he's at least a couple if not 4 or 5 years older than he's listed as.

 

[itduzz]

afridi is a must in Pak ODI side. him & akhtar bring so much passion & energu to Pak side. Without them, Pak is a dull side. Like Pieterson, Dhoni they bring energy in the team

 

[Manee]

I think people overrate his he-scores-fast value myself. A quick 21 won't do much to contribute to a victory. Certainly a quick 13 won't.

24 is a dreadful average. Afridi is a terrible batsman, wherever he bats. He completely lacks a brain with a bat in hands. Had his career been based on batting alone he'd probably have been - rightly - regarded as a complete joke and sunk without trace long ago, never getting anywhere near the international level and possibly not the domestic either.

His bowling, meanwhile, while effective of times, has never been anything especially remarkable. I'll analyse it a bit more when I get the chance.

One final thing: is he really just 27? Maybe, but don't forget he took ODI cricket by storm when supposedly just 16. Heck, even Sachin Tendulkar couldn't do it at that age. If he couldn't, there's no reason Shahid Afridi could. I can't shake the feeling he's at least a couple if not 4 or 5 years older than he's listed as.

His age is shocking certainly.

As for quick 20s and 30s being inneffective, I disagree. At the rate he scores, that can be an extra 15 runs than what other people would get in the time.

250-->275: Difference there
175-->200: Difference there too

Clearly the effect can be profound, especially with a large number of ODIs going down to the wire these days.

How he did in the Abu Dhabi Series is proof of his effect. Good batting, wins one match. Good bowling, wins another. Afridi wins the series! You cannot drop someone who can do that.

The problem is, his batting is so aimless, he blocks one and hits the exact same one for six, where is the logic, this angers many but he must be coached before a great talent goes to waste.

 

[Richard]

Thing is, though, he's been around for donkey's years now: he must have received a fair amount of coaching from a fair few people. I can't believe anything is ever going to improve him, TBH.

As for quick 22s or so... frankly, give me 45 off 60 balls over 22 off 12 anyday (well, almost any day, there are exceptions to most rules). I don't think there's a place for someone who consistently scores those sorts of innings, never mind scores them about half the time and scores 4 off 5 balls more often.