Criticising Tendulkar the in thing

[Anil]

I think its unfair to compare some of the people criticising the article here to more fanatic Sachin fans who are unwilling to accept criticism of him. For mine I think we've proven to be more balanced and far from worshippers of him, regardless of what he does. I'm not going to shy away that he's probably my favourite cricketer, and I imagine Dasa is in the same boat, but I'd worry about how we're perceived as cricket posters if we were juxtaposed to the more stereotypical fans who defend Sachin at all costs.

Had Tendulkar failed in Bangladesh, I would have definitely come out and stated that his position in the test team was in jeapordy. I have also harshly criticised Tendulkar for a) a specific dismissal in the 2nd test vs. SA in SA, where I think he went a long way to hurting the team by, ironically, trying to play too aggressively, and b) his innings in the 3rd test (2nd innings), along with Dravid, which IMO cost India any chance of victory, and consequently we lost the match and the series.

1. his position in the test team should have been in question before the start of this series based on his recent test performances...

2. the guy is my favourite cricketer too by a long shot, and nothing would please me more(cricket-wise) than to see him come good again, but i am trying to be objective about this, i am not saying it is the most brilliantly intuitive article in the world, but it is analytical enough to be quite reasonable and far from being rubbish either...

But in this case, I just do not accept the criticism. That Bangladesh series, whether people want to admit it or not (and I am a Bangladeshi fan mind you, I wear a Bangladesh cricket shirt whilst playing indoor cricket ) was nothing more than a chance for India, and hence the players within the team (in particular Tendulkar and Ganguly) to get some form back, get some confidence and through doing this, win the test series.

can you tell me why you don't accept the criticism(i mean do you have a reason other than "after all, he hit a century and the team won the game, therefore he is above criticism"?)?
as for the bangladeshi series, no i do not agree with your assessment of what the series was about...dravid summed it up best after the test series, it was a lose-lose for the indians from the beginning, if they win well, they are supposed to so it's no biggie, if they falter, it would be a disaster...and do you think bashing a mediocre attack on dead wickets is the best way to get your form and confidence back?

 

[adharcric]

do you think bashing a mediocre attack on dead wickets is the best way to get your form and confidence back?

Definitely not the best way to regain form but it does have some value. He may have scored runs against a substandard attack on flat pitches but the attack was not that poor nor were the pitches that flat. The bottom line is that he topped the run charts for the series and these runs are far from worthless.

Moving onto the article, it is not a disgraceful or ghastly article by any means but it is not impressive either. Tendulkar did not score at a fast rate but he has been in a wretched run of form; getting runs under the belt and spending time at the crease is the first step. Ideally, he would get set and become more aggresive later in the series but that did not happen. Nevertheless, Tendulkar scored runs and should have regained some form. Not such a terrible situation.

 

[Anil]

Definitely not the best way to regain form but it does have some value. He may have scored runs against a substandard attack on flat pitches but the attack was not that poor nor were the pitches that flat. The bottom line is that he topped the run charts for the series and these runs are far from worthless.

actually it was a poor attack and the pitches were flat, you can argue the degree of flatness and standard of the attack for ever, did i say this was about the runs he scored or that they were completely worthless? no, this was about the way he scored 'em given the team situation...and that's what no tendulkar fan is touching with a 10 foot barge pole...

Moving onto the article, it is not a disgraceful or ghastly article by any means but it is not impressive either. Tendulkar did not score at a fast rate but he has been in a wretched run of form; getting runs under the belt and spending time at the crease is the first step. Ideally, he would get set and become more aggresive later in the series but that did not happen. Nevertheless, Tendulkar scored runs and should have regained some form. Not such a terrible situation.

once again, the article was about what he did in a team scenario keeping in mind that this is a team game and everything is not always about tendulkar as your 2nd para seems to indicate and that the approach didn't hurt us because 1. we were facing a team significantly worse than us 2. others stepped up in a team cause and 3. that it could've if we were facing a better team...

 

[adharcric]

once again, the article was about what he did in a team scenario keeping in mind that this is a team game and everything is not always about tendulkar as your 2nd para seems to indicate and that the approach didn't hurt us because 1. we were facing a team significantly worse than us 2. others stepped up in a team cause and 3. that it could've if we were facing a better team...

We were facing a poor enough team that he could afford to bat cautiously and not worry about going too slowly. If he does it again and it hurts the team, then it will be an issue.

 

[Anil]

We were facing a poor enough team that he could afford to bat cautiously and not worry about going too slowly. If he does it again and it hurts the team, then it will be an issue.

right! if he does it again.... if he fails in the next series.... where have we heard those before? are you sure it will be an issue?, i am pretty sure other "excuses" will spring forth...have seen too many of those these past couple of years...

 

[adharcric]

right! if he does it again.... if he fails in the next series.... where have we heard those before? are you sure it will be an issue?, i am pretty sure other "excuses" will spring forth...have seen too many of those these past couple of years...

Really, there isn't much I can do if you are convinced that everyone here is a biased Sachin fanatic with no objectivity and no interest in the team success. Let me give you a recap.

- Away vs Pakistan: Sachin averaged 21 and the slump began.
- Home vs England: Sachin averaged 21 and his place came under question.
- Away vs South Africa: Sachin averaged 33 and showed signs of a return to form.
- Away vs Bangladesh: Sachin topped the run charts but batted slowly.

Several posters here (myself included) said it after the SA tour and I'll say it again - Tendulkar should get dropped if he fails in England.

 

[Manee]

Yes, he should, but I dont think he will plau bad. He has a stupendous record against England in England.

                     Mat    I  NO  Runs HS1  HS2  HS3     Ave 100  50   0

unfiltered           137  220  23 10922 248* 241* 217   55.44  37  43  13
filtered              10   16   1  1074 193  177  122   71.60   4   4   0

 

[Perm]

Yes, he should, but I dont think he will plau bad. He has a stupendous record against England in England.

                     Mat    I  NO  Runs HS1  HS2  HS3     Ave 100  50   0

unfiltered           137  220  23 10922 248* 241* 217   55.44  37  43  13
filtered              10   16   1  1074 193  177  122   71.60   4   4   0

All good things must come to an end.

 

[Manee]

A very good analogy but his stint at Yorkshire may have really accustomed him to English conditions to the extent that one can't forget over time.

 

[Perm]

A very good analogy but his stint at Yorkshire may have really accustomed him to English conditions to the extent that one can't forget over time.

He had a pretty average time with Yorkshire, by his standards anyway.

 

[Manee]

Yes, but it accustomed him to the conditions.

 

[Perm]

Yes, but it accustomed him to the conditions.

Yes it probably did, but I doubt he will remember exactly what those conditions are like when he heads back there in a few weeks time. It will take him a little while to adapt to the English pitches and conditions, but I have no doubt he will.

 

[sohummisra]

Why not ? Bangladesh have shown that they have improved and also that if you take them lightly, you might eny up regretting it. Would you like it If we were to the first country(other than Zimbabwe) to lose a test against Bangladesh ?Besides 200/0 is not a very good score at least not good enough to start taking unnecessary risk in order to up the strike rate. It just takes two deliveries to go from 200/0 to 200/2. I would rather have our batsmen play until we reach 500 before being too aggressive.

I think this sort of defensive strategy is just the thing that the Indian team was guilty of reverting to in the last decade when faced with a tough match. There is no need to take unnecessary risks, but by the same token, there's no need to take unnecessary defensive techniques. On a flat pitch where scoring hundreds seemed to be as easy as flipping a coin, (almost) everyone outscored Tendulkar. It's fair enough that he starts slowly as any batsman is allowed that privilege, but he maintained that same tempo for his entire innings.

I pose you a question: Would you like it if we were the first country (other than Zimbabwe) to come back from Bangladesh without a series win? If any of the days had rained out or the Bangla batsman had put up any sort of resistance, direct blame for the loss could definitely be placed at defensive batsman even when in a position of ascendancy.

This is a very unfair critcism of Tendulkar, Considering that Ricky Ponting, who some people think that scores quickly, had a strike rate of 50 in his last series against BD compared to Tendulkar's 57.

Except this is not isolated criticism for Tendulkar. Even if Ponting may have had a strike rate of 50 in his last series, by all accounts he is an aggressive batsman?

Lastly in England, I would be happy if Tendulkar scores @ a strike rate of 55-60 and scores well. I would also be happy with a strike rate around 55 even if he came into bat @ 300/2 in the first inning of a test match.

A strike rate of 55-60 is excellent in test cricket, but I would be looking at something more from someone like Tendulkar, who is supposed to be one of the best batsmen in the world. Furthermore, if we want to become as good as Australia, we have to take the risk of losing wickets sometimes to press home the advantage. I'm not asking Tendulkar to looking for a boundary every over, but to drive home the advantage. I'm particularly peeved in recent times because that is exactly what Ganguly did in ODI's and test matches before he was unceremoniously axed from the team.

 

[sohummisra]

I bet if he scored a run a ball 60 then holed out he would have been criticised for "not going on with it" as well.

Pretty much all he could do was score a century, and score it damn fast, otherwise he was a goner. What's the point?

Are there only two extremes? Either he scores at 50 or 100+? Surely he could have scored a teensy bit quicker, especially given the situation?

Also, I can see two more reasons in the timing of this article: (1) People are getting to see less and less of Tendulkar these days given his fitness. As a result, they want to see more and more of his best. (2) It is a matter of pride for most Indians that Tendulkar has the most runs/centuries in international cricket and the fact that Ponting has been in an extended purple match makes the immediate future look a little grim.

 

[sohummisra]

Definitely not the best way to regain form but it does have some value. He may have scored runs against a substandard attack on flat pitches but the attack was not that poor nor were the pitches that flat. The bottom line is that he topped the run charts for the series and these runs are far from worthless.

The pitches were pretty flat and apart from some initial trouble from Mashrafe, it seemed like the only way a wicket could be taken was by bouncing the batsman out.

 

[sohummisra]

All good things must come to an end.

Only for mortals.

 

[adharcric]

The pitches were pretty flat and apart from some initial trouble from Mashrafe, it seemed like the only way a wicket could be taken was by bouncing the batsman out.

Tendulkar still outscored every other batsman on display. Does that count for nothing?

 

[Anil]

Really, there isn't much I can do if you are convinced that everyone here is a biased Sachin fanatic with no objectivity and no interest in the team success. Let me give you a recap.

- Away vs Pakistan: Sachin averaged 21 and the slump began.
- Home vs England: Sachin averaged 21 and his place came under question.
- Away vs South Africa: Sachin averaged 33 and showed signs of a return to form.
- Away vs Bangladesh: Sachin topped the run charts but batted slowly.

Several posters here (myself included) said it after the SA tour and I'll say it again - Tendulkar should get dropped if he fails in England.

you know what, you just proved what i said in my previous post...again...anyway, let's wait for the england series and see what happens...

 

[sohummisra]

Tendulkar still outscored every other batsman on display. Does that count for nothing?

Certainly it does and he has been given praise for his batting. But giving praise and giving criticism aren't mutually exclusive. Tendulkar's runs definitely helped the team and it was good to see him get runs, but that's not to say that he did not look particularly comfortable or 'on top of the bowlers' while getting those runs. He grafted for his runs while those around him flourished. Congratulations and cautions for him, as India head to England.

 

[Jono]

1. his position in the test team should have been in question before the start of this series based on his recent test performances...

2. the guy is my favourite cricketer too by a long shot, and nothing would please me more(cricket-wise) than to see him come good again, but i am trying to be objective about this, i am not saying it is the most brilliantly intuitive article in the world, but it is analytical enough to be quite reasonable and far from being rubbish either...

Never argued that his position in the team shouldn't have been in question before the start of the series, but that is a separate point regarding the article.

can you tell me why you don't accept the criticism(i mean do you have a reason other than "after all, he hit a century and the team won the game, therefore he is above criticism"?)?
as for the bangladeshi series, no i do not agree with your assessment of what the series was about...dravid summed it up best after the test series, it was a lose-lose for the indians from the beginning, if they win well, they are supposed to so it's no biggie, if they falter, it would be a disaster...and do you think bashing a mediocre attack on dead wickets is the best way to get your form and confidence back?

I was actually going to write more in my previous post, but I got interrupted and had to just post what I had written.

Why do I think the criticism is unfair? Because as I sort of said earlier, to me, the series against Bangladesh wasn't about winning it. It was about not losing it first, and ensuring that the correct preparation was given to the Indian team.

The Indian team isn't about Tendulkar no, but its about each individual getting done what was needed, and for a few batsman, Sachin and Ganguly in particular, it was time in the middle, batting practice and increasing confidence. That happened here, and India won the series. Mission accomplished.

If Sachin deliberately doesn't increase his pace when batting against England, and it is obvious that this has occurred, for selfish reasons, then I think an article should be written. Until that day happens, I think the articles should wait.

Anil, would an article have been written had Tendulkar failed? Definitely. Would a similar article also been written had he tried to bat too fast, gotten out and exposed Dhoni etc. early? Probably.

Runs aren't going to be easy when he plays England in England, I don't see how him slapping around Bangladesh at a quicker rate would have meant anything special anyway. So just like India were in a no win situation, neither was Sachin.