***Official*** India in England

[Richard]

That Dhoni isn't too bad himself I hear.

I'm hoping Hoggard can sort him out in the Tests.

 

[Richard]

His style of batting rocks yo.

Yeah, hitting one in the air to a fielder early on. What more could you want from a batsman?

 

[Pup Clarke]

Aren't you also hoping Harmison, Flintoff, Sidebottom and Panesar can "sort him out"?.

 

[Richard]

Not hopeful of Sidebottom or Harmison doing so, TBH, and am naturally worried about the prospect of Panesar sorting anyone out in said series because that'd almost inevitably mean Kumble did the same and worse in return.

 

[sohummisra]

Not hopeful of Sidebottom or Harmison doing so, TBH, and am naturally worried about the prospect of Panesar sorting anyone out in said series because that'd almost inevitably mean Kumble did the same and worse in return.

I think Panesar will pick up the prized scalp of Tendulkar more than once this series.

 

[Richard]

Well, yeah, he might, but so might Paul Collingwood.

Just the single scalp isn't any great achievement though. If Panesar has a real impact on the series - ie gets Tendulkar and others out often - it's very likely that the pitches will have been spin-receptive, and therefore that Kumble will have had a ball on them. And if it comes down to Panesar vs Kumble for the series, I'd back India.

 

[Prince EWS]

The point was that both have a great amount of international experience, enough to class them as proven to play consistantly at international level. The comment was blown way out of proportion.

Similarly, you could say that the 83 veteran at my club has played over 500 games, which is enough to prove he can play cricket consistently. Would you put him in any cricket game, purely on the basis of it being cricket?

The same thing applies with Yuvraj. While he is technically an experienced international player, he is far from an inexperienced or proven test player.

 

[Prince EWS]

Well, yeah, he might, but so might Paul Collingwood.

If he does, I'm sooo nominating this for the Lilly/Marsh...

 

[honestbharani]

tbf, I can see where he is coming from, just found it funny that even he should equate scoring quickly with *power*.

Alright, I mentioned "power" because that is something that Karthik lacks. I never said he needed that to become a good batsman, but to be a great batsman (one who can play in any situation) I think u need 'some' power. Don't have to be a big bully like a Hayden or Symonds but you need to generate enough power to be able to play the big shots when the situation demands it.


If you see all over the world, batsmen who depend on touch and timing for runs always struggle when they have to force the pace. They will do well occassionally, but generally it is not "their" game. Someone like Ponting, on the other hand, he can be all technique and touch and finesse when it is required but he can also slog them out when it is needed. Lara and Tendulkar were the same at their primes. Perhaps, before we had so much ODI cricket, it wasn't such a big deal but if you really want to be a very good to great batsman in both forms (or should I say all three forms) of the game, you need to have 'some' power to go with ur skills. It is definitely not the #1 requirement and you can become a very good player even without it, but if you have it, it helps u become that much more complete as a batsman.


And honestly, I don't mind individual batsmen slowing down their scoring so that they can be more consistent at all. But when a whole batting order does that, you are left with a big gap. We don't have that guy there in the middle order who will take the game by the scruff of the neck. He would probably only score at a SR of 60, which Sachin and Sourav can manage even today through singles, but it is the WAY in which he scores that would put off the opposition. They will suddenly feel the pinch, esp. if it comes after a grinding top order partnership or two.... They would have had 3 or 4 hours in the hot sun and bowlers would be tired and suddenly, here is a batsman who is flaying anything that is not perfect length, around. All the very good test teams have had one or two of that sort in the top 6 and it worries me that India don't have that. I just think that we don't have a "grab-the-game-by-the-neck" player either in our batting or in our bowling and that could hurt us this season.



I hope I didn't sound like Arjun anymore.

 

[JaiMurugan]

Why Tendulkar and Ganguly are still in the Indian team is beyond me...well actually not, given that we pick players on reupatation and non performance....Sachin is well past his best and should have retired after the WC imo. Ganguly has never been that good in tests anyway and as for ODI cricket, is he really going to be around for that much longer ?
I would have picked Badrinath....he was very impressive on India A 's tour of Australia last year. I cannot fathom why he has not played intl cricket as of yet given that he was the standout player on that tour.
Have mixed feelings about Yuvraj getting a test berth but he has age on his side and probably his best years ahead on him, something Sauarv and Sachin don't.

I would have used this tour to start rebuilding the Indian team and get some fresh faces in the side.
Dropping Harbhajan and Sehwag was a good move -- I still think Sehwag can taste more success as an opener but he needs to sort out a few issues.
Be interesting to see what Powar can do - as a finger spinner you would think he'd have limited success in England but if India get the right pitch (perhaps at the Oval where both Saqi and Harby have had some success for Surrey), he could be very useful......he's the sort of finger spinner that's pretty unusual these days and England haven't seen a lot him.
Like Bose, he's had solid domestic success and deserves his chance.

Like Anand Vasu at cricinfo, I'm a bit skeptical of Gambhir but India haven't got really too many other opening options, although I always felt Aakash Chopra was a little hard done by.

Without MUnaf Patel, the pace attack looks unthreatening. I think Zaheer Khan is extremely overrated and Sreesanth all said and done is still pretty unproven yet he's the pace spearhead. Although I don't begrudge Bose his selection, I have my doubts about his ability at test level....a lot of his domestic success has come on greentops and how many 75-80 mph swing bowlers have been genuinely sucesful in the modern era ? If anything, his success shows the flaws of India's domestic system.
I'm still unconvinced about RP Singh....he lacks consistency in line and length and Ishant Sharma is a rookie from whom not a lot can be expected.

It's going to be tough going for India in the tests imo.....I'm predicting a 2-0 loss. If India has a chance anywhere you would think it's most likely going to be at the Oval. If they can get to the Oval with the series still alive, they may have a chance of pulling off something.....

 

[viktor]

hbh, you don't sound like Arjun anymore, no. Not that that is a bad thing...

Like I said, I see your point about being able to force the pace. However, every batsman has his role, more so in Tests and as an opener, Karthik is not usually going to be in a situation where he has to clear the infield.
That, however, was not my question really. I got the impression that you implied that Badri would be the guy who could bat aggressively but from what I know of him, he doesn't seem to be that kind of a batsman.

 

[adharcric]

Alright, I mentioned "power" because that is something that Karthik lacks. I never said he needed that to become a good batsman, but to be a great batsman (one who can play in any situation) I think u need 'some' power. Don't have to be a big bully like a Hayden or Symonds but you need to generate enough power to be able to play the big shots when the situation demands it.


If you see all over the world, batsmen who depend on touch and timing for runs always struggle when they have to force the pace. They will do well occassionally, but generally it is not "their" game. Someone like Ponting, on the other hand, he can be all technique and touch and finesse when it is required but he can also slog them out when it is needed. Lara and Tendulkar were the same at their primes. Perhaps, before we had so much ODI cricket, it wasn't such a big deal but if you really want to be a very good to great batsman in both forms (or should I say all three forms) of the game, you need to have 'some' power to go with ur skills. It is definitely not the #1 requirement and you can become a very good player even without it, but if you have it, it helps u become that much more complete as a batsman.


And honestly, I don't mind individual batsmen slowing down their scoring so that they can be more consistent at all. But when a whole batting order does that, you are left with a big gap. We don't have that guy there in the middle order who will take the game by the scruff of the neck. He would probably only score at a SR of 60, which Sachin and Sourav can manage even today through singles, but it is the WAY in which he scores that would put off the opposition. They will suddenly feel the pinch, esp. if it comes after a grinding top order partnership or two.... They would have had 3 or 4 hours in the hot sun and bowlers would be tired and suddenly, here is a batsman who is flaying anything that is not perfect length, around. All the very good test teams have had one or two of that sort in the top 6 and it worries me that India don't have that. I just think that we don't have a "grab-the-game-by-the-neck" player either in our batting or in our bowling and that could hurt us this season.



I hope I didn't sound like Arjun anymore.

Dravid isn't a great batsman then? Karthik certainly has more power than Dravid does. By the way, Karthik can find the boundary and play quick innings - there are several examples from his u-19, A-level and domestic career. Unlike someone like Yuvraj or Dhoni, he cannot hit sixes at will ... but he can certainly find the boundary efficiently when required. Besides, we will rarely require him to go berserk. Dhoni can take over a match and Yuvraj has the ability as well - as long as they can both cement a place in the test side, we should be fine.

 

[adharcric]

I would have picked Badrinath....he was very impressive on India A 's tour of Australia last year. I cannot fathom why he has not played intl cricket as of yet given that he was the standout player on that tour.

Considering Badrinath even participated in the pre-selection training camp, the only explanation for his exclusion is that a) there is no opening in the test squad b) Rohit Sharma was more impressive and took the ODI berth.

Without MUnaf Patel, the pace attack looks unthreatening.

Losing Munaf for the tour of England is certainly a huge blow but he's better off staying away if he was just going to play hurt again.

I think Zaheer Khan is extremely overrated and Sreesanth all said and done is still pretty unproven yet he's the pace spearhead.

Say what? Zaheer bowled quite well with the new ball in SA (tailed off a bit though) and averaged 21 on the flat tracks of BD. He is also very experienced in English conditions.

Although I don't begrudge Bose his selection, I have my doubts about his ability at test level....a lot of his domestic success has come on greentops and how many 75-80 mph swing bowlers have been genuinely sucesful in the modern era ? If anything, his success shows the flaws of India's domestic system.

England is probably the best chance for Bose to shine. He bowls accurate spells with the new ball and cuts, swings and seams the ball like crazy. I was not too impressed with him (or his pace) in the Duleep Trophy but he certainly has a chance in English conditions.

 

[Dasa]

On Zaheer, how can he be overrated if he's not really rated in the first place? I don't think anyone thinks he'll ever be an all-time great or anything, just that he could be a solid bowler with the new ball.

 

[JaiMurugan]

On Zaheer, how can he be overrated if he's not really rated in the first place? I don't think anyone thinks he'll ever be an all-time great or anything, just that he could be a solid bowler with the new ball.

Well I certainly think a lot of India fans rate him pretty highly after he his coiunty season last year, his taking 13 wickets at 30.1 in RSA and his wickets in Bangladesh.

I still don't think he is a guy who can consistently put the ball in the right areas....I watched a lot of the Bangaldesh series and I don't think Zaheer was all that great, the Bangers gifted him a lot of his wickets..
And was his county season all that succesfull ? he leaked nearly 4 runs an over and took wickets at an avereage of only 28....this was only in 2nd division mind. He's probably better than some of the other seam options we've got but it's not saying a lot really.

 

[Perm]

Why don't you think that, I think both teams are equally poor in ODIs.

England rely on Kevin Pietersen, if he doesn't do well then it is very rarely that England do well. I just think that India have too many classy batsman for England to even come close to them. The likes of Tendulkar, Dravid, Yuvraj, Ganguly and Dhoni should absolutely dominate the rubbish that the English bowling attack will more than likely serve up.

 

[Perm]

His style of batting rocks yo. What summer of cricket are we having when their is no Lara, Sehwag, Flintoff, only KP is exciting things ATM. Look Tendulkar better start to crank it up.

Sehwag is far from exciting when he is prodding around outside the off stump.

 

[adharcric]

On Zaheer, how can he be overrated if he's not really rated in the first place? I don't think anyone thinks he'll ever be an all-time great or anything, just that he could be a solid bowler with the new ball.

Pretty much. Zaheer has definitely been putting the ball in the right areas as well, consistently so in his latest stint. Didn't really watch him bowl in BD but he was very accurate in SA, the preceding ODIs home and away and the few domestic matches that he played before that. He should just stop trying to use that bouncer - it's pathetic.

 

[Prince EWS]

Pretty much. Zaheer has definitely been putting the ball in the right areas as well, consistently so in his latest stint. Didn't really watch him bowl in BD but he was very accurate in SA, the preceding ODIs home and away and the few domestic matches that he played before that. He should just stop trying to use that bouncer - it's pathetic.

Yeah, Zaheer has improved a lot lately IMO. Even becoming a bit under-rated if everyone thinks he is just plain crap. Obviously he'll never be any more than decent, but he's been that, pretty consistently, since his last recall.

 

[Prince EWS]

England rely on Kevin Pietersen, if he doesn't do well then it is very rarely that England do well. I just think that India have too many classy batsman for England to even come close to them. The likes of Tendulkar, Dravid, Yuvraj, Ganguly and Dhoni should absolutely dominate the rubbish that the English bowling attack will more than likely serve up.

Agreed. India haven't performed particularly well in one day cricket of late, but there isn't really a lot of reason for that when you consider who is in their team. England's one day team is just dire really, so unless they completely reshape it, India should win pretty convincingly.