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Official Rugby Thread

ohtani's jacket

ohtani's jacket

State Vice-Captain
BoyBrumby said:
How are you blokes down there feeling about these "tests" v vastly weakened NH teams? Serve absolutely no purpose as far as I can see, apart from devaluing the whole notion of test rugby. The French, for instance, had no survivors in the XV from their last 6 Nations match v the sweaties. Only Ibanez & (maybe) Magne would make their strongest team.

Just seem to be some sort of quid pro quo for SH teams touring during our autumn.
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Well, we've been scoring 40 points against full strength French sides of late, so I doubt it would've made much difference. Obviously they weren't great Test matches, but quite a few of our players needed to find some form and it was pleasing to see them do so. A number of guys played well on the weekend. Nick Evans proved he's valuable as specialist cover, Leonard proved he's a way better back-up than Jimmy Cowan, Joe Rokocoko found some much needed confidence and Jerry Collins showed that the All Blacks are simply better whenever he plays. Not bad, aside from the injuries.

What I don't get is how England managed to send a full squad to NZ and Australia this time four years ago. Was the European club season scheduled differently?
 
Smudge

Smudge

Hall of Fame Member
I'm not even making the trip down to the 'Brook. Mainly because (a) I forgot to organise media accreditation and (b) we have club rugby on here anyway so I have to cover that. :(
 
BoyBrumby

BoyBrumby

Englishman
ohtani's jacket said:
Well, we've been scoring 40 points against full strength French sides of late, so I doubt it would've made much difference. Obviously they weren't great Test matches, but quite a few of our players needed to find some form and it was pleasing to see them do so. A number of guys played well on the weekend. Nick Evans proved he's valuable as specialist cover, Leonard proved he's a way better back-up than Jimmy Cowan, Joe Rokocoko found some much needed confidence and Jerry Collins showed that the All Blacks are simply better whenever he plays. Not bad, aside from the injuries.

What I don't get is how England managed to send a full squad to NZ and Australia this time four years ago. Was the European club season scheduled differently?
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IIRC it was an all French affair, so no Englishmen involved.
 
Smudge

Smudge

Hall of Fame Member
What the hell is happening in South African rugby. I actually feel sorry for the average supporter:

The plot to crown Luke Bok captain

By Mark Keohane and Dale Granger

Luke Watson will captain the Springboks in 2008 and Peter de Villiers will become the first black national rugby coach if a plan to "Africanise" Springbok rugby succeeds.

And to complete the takeover and end 100 years of white dominance in SA rugby, the transformation objective is that the first 2008 Bok team will include 10 black and coloured players in the starting XV.

The leadership is resigned to the fact that the plan cannot be instituted for this year's World Cup in France in September, but that change must be forced by 2008.

South African Rugby Union (Saru) deputy president Mike Stofile and Bok team manager Zola Yeye have emerged as the most influential decision-makers among rugby's black leadership.

Both men also want Bok coach Jake White and captain John Smit booted out after the World Cup.

White, appointed Bok coach in 2004, was offered the chance to continue as Bok coach after the 2007 World Cup if he embraced Watson's selection and greater black team representation. The offer was made in behind-the-scenes negotiations prior to the start of the international season.

White has consistently refused to pick Watson on what he claims are rugby grounds, but Watson and rugby's black leadership have argued it is because White was anti the player's family political history.

White dismissed the claims as rubbish and confirmed he had been offered a future in SA rugby if he invested in Watson as a regular up to the 2007 World Cup and beyond.

White told Weekend Argus yesterday that lawyer Brian Biebuyck had attempted to broker a deal between himself, the Watson family and the game's leadership. "Brian has represented me for the last four years and of late also represents the Watson family business," said White.

"In a meeting with me he said he spoke on behalf of the Watson family and rugby's influential leadership. The message was that if I wanted a future in South African rugby beyond the World Cup I had to include Watson in the Bok team and pick him for the World Cup.

"I told Brian I would get back to him, but before I could give him an answer the decision was taken out of my hands and I was forced by the Saru leadership to include the player anyway."

He no longer uses Biebuyck as his lawyer. "We still enjoy a good relationship, but because of conflict of interest there is no longer a business relationship."

At the time of the Biebuyck meeting (Luke) Watson severed his relationship with agent Craig Livingstone because of "potential future conflict". Livingstone also represents White.

The game's black leadership are said to be fed up with the slow pace of transformation at national level, and believe Watson and De Villiers complement the ideals of transformation.

De Villiers, coach of the Emerging Springboks, told Weekend Argus he was good enough to coach the Boks, and said his coaching record at under-21 level was better than White's. He also insisted Watson would be the first choice if he were made coach, and maintained he would immediately transform the Bok team.

"I won a World Cup away from home and lost in a final away from home. Jake won his at home and came fourth away from home.

"I have no problem with the transformation requirements. My record at under-19, under-21 and provincial level speaks for itself. Other coaches pick black players in their squad, but don't play them. That's where I am different. I pick the players and trust them by playing them. They trust the reason why I have picked them."

De Villiers said he would meet a requirement of 10 black African and coloured players in a Bok starting XV, and added rugby supporters would have to accept transformation was bigger than test results. "There will be pain (in results) but it is something we must go through to transform the team. It would be an honour for me to coach the Boks."

De Villiers said Watson was a natural choice as captain. "Victor Matfield would be an option because he is respected all over for his ability as a player, but Luke was my captain with the under 21s. He would be the first name on to my team sheet. He is an inspirational and dynamic leader and a great player."

The plan to thrust Watson into a pioneering role as captain of a new-look Bok team has been plotted for six months. The black leadership believes Watson represents the new South Africa because of his family's apartheid struggle credentials. His father, Cheeky Watson, refused a Springbok cap in the 1970s because he refused to play in whites-only rugby. It is also felt that Watson is acceptable to white and black supporters in South Africa.
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Perm

Perm

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
****en ridiculous. Watson should be in the side, but all this talk of transformation and **** like that really grinds my gears.
 
Fiery

Fiery

Banned
Perm said:
****en ridiculous. Watson should be in the side, but all this talk of transformation and **** like that really grinds my gears.
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It doesn't bother me that much really.. yeah, two wrongs don't make a right but after over 200 years of racism and bigotry this sort of thing in SA doesn't worry me much. If it was happening in another country then yes it would...then again, I've been to Robben Island which definitely opened my eyes
 
Perm

Perm

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Fiery said:
It doesn't bother me that much really.. yeah, two wrongs don't make a right but after over 200 years of racism and bigotry this sort of thing in SA doesn't worry me much. If it was happening in another country then yes it would...then again, I've been to Robben Island which definitely opened my eyes
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Dire.
 
BoyBrumby

BoyBrumby

Englishman
Not wishing to seem dim, but Luke Watson is white, isn't he? I mean I know some guys deemed "coloured" under the old classifications look white, but he looks very white to me. :huh:

That being so, it's now not just about selecting players from formerly disadvantaged backgrounds, but the right sort of white guy as well? The mind boggles. :wacko:
 
Smudge

Smudge

Hall of Fame Member
Yes, he's white, but his father, Cheeky Watson, was a very outspoken anti-apartheid player player in his day, and the ANC are keen to reward his son for that.
 
Perm

Perm

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Well the Junior All Blacks really dominated Australia A as expected, good to see. Shame I wasn't able to go but it wasn't really much of a contest.

Anyone think we'll ton up against Canada?
 
Perm

Perm

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Fiery said:
He certainly showed the contestants he judges on NZ Idol how it's done alright. Got a prediction Perm?
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70-6 IMO. Can't see Canada scoring a try, but they'll retain the ball well enough to prevent us cracking 100.
 
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