PhoenixFire
International Coach
The title says it all, were Vaughan's comments about 'Fredalo' fair or not?
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Were Vaughan's comments justified?
- Thread starter PhoenixFire
- Start date
silentstriker
The Wheel is Forever
Yes, they were fair, and yes they were probably true. But they shouldn't have been made about a team mate, and so I am voting no.
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
Yeah, he definitely did blame the incident without saying anything against Flintoff directly. However, one must read between the lines a little. If you blame the incident, you are surely blaming the person who caused it if it would have been reasonable to expect the person at fault had not caused it to happen - which it certainly would have.I still maintain that Vaughan's words have been misconstrued and he blames the incident NOT the individual, but I seem to be in a minority.
Whilst he didn't directly blame Flintoff exactly, it's pretty obvious that it what he was trying to get across. Very dire IMO.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
I certainly think he was unwise to say what he did, even if what he thinks is not completely without justification. I mean, I don't think feeling more free and relaxed would have helped too many members of England's WC squad because so many of them are downright poor (and that includes Vaughan the batsman himself), but I can see how the incident could have made everyone a bit uptight.
I still think Vaughan, as Jim Cumbes said, would have been better to speak to Flintoff about it and not a newspaper.
I still think Vaughan, as Jim Cumbes said, would have been better to speak to Flintoff about it and not a newspaper.
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
Agreed completely. Vaughan is probably on the money here, and I love it when cricketers speak their minds instead of handing out cliches like diplomats, but pointing the finger at team-mates (directly or otherwise) is not on IMO - especially given the fact that he was the captain and hence accepts the responsibility for the team as a whole.
True? Possibly. Hell, even probably. But should he have said it? No, no he shouldn't have. Especially not now as the team looks to leave it behind them and move on. Very much in poor taste and poor timing.
Jono
Virat Kohli (c)
The comments were true, but its not a captain's job to be 100% honest in interviews. They don't necessarily have to be robots, but no way in hell should a captain ever air dirty laundry out in public. All he had to say was "things didn't work out in the WC, there were incidents that unsettled the team, we lost games when we were in positions to win them, and some players didn't perform up to standard, myself included, but that's in the past now and our concern is this summer's cricket vs. WI and India."
That's it.
That's it.
Tom Halsey
International Coach
Yep, just about sums it up.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
And even more especially, as Gelman said earlier, given that Flintoff has, constantly and ad nauseum to some, fought the corner of even the most beleguared of the side the last 12 months - and that includes Vaughan himself.
After doing that, he doesn't deserve this.
Goughy
Hall of Fame Member
Whatever you think as a captain or as a team you present a united front to the media and public unless it is an issue of the gravest concern.
Otherwise it should be all dealt with inhouse. Its fine for Vaughan and the management to berate and vilify Flintoff behind closed doors. However, to the public the team must appear to be a cohesive unit.
Otherwise it should be all dealt with inhouse. Its fine for Vaughan and the management to berate and vilify Flintoff behind closed doors. However, to the public the team must appear to be a cohesive unit.
roobarb
Cricket Spectator
Not sure where I stand on this matter. On the one hand it provided some insight into the pressure the players are under with the constant media scrutiny. Can't have been good for the players not being able to let their hair down at all and must have contributed to lowering team morale. Flintoff should have known better but it was still a mountain out of a molehill. On the other hand, making his observations public was also not likely to be particularly good for team spirit.
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
Not that I agree with him saying what he did, but if people are going to give stock-standard responses like that, there's little point in them being interviewed at all IMO.
I quite like the fact that the likes of Smith, Ponting and Vaughan tell it like it is - it makes it worth reading. Again, I don't agree with him lumping the blame on one for an off-field discretion publically, but equally I don't agree with the notion of the captains just acting like walking media-release-regurgitaters.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
Near enough universal agreeance on this issue...
What amazes me most is that Vaughan has always been so, so sold on this make-sure-the-team-presents-a-united-front-to-the-cameras stuff. And Nasser Hussain, indeed, was rather skeptical of it at first, saying he was more concerned with what went on behind the scenes than the emphasising it to the public.
It'd be particularly interesting to hear what Hussain has to say about this, if anything.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
Finding a happy medium - constantly, with the never-ending press barrage - is near impossible, though. Being a tell-it-like-it-is merchant is, to me, preferable to being, as you describe it, a walking-media-release-regurgitator, but unfortunately that's always going to lead to the odd thing like this. Who knows, maybe it was a slip-up? Maybe, just hours after saying that, Vaughan thought "oh, God, what have I let us in for?" I really hope so, in fact.
There have been times when I - who have always been very much of the blunt type - have said stuff that I afterwards thought "I could have not said that and I'd still have been happy".
Piper
International Captain
How can you blame one man or one incident? They all played crap.. well instead of Collingwood. He is just looking for someone/incident to blame and it's wrong. They should all put their hands up and say ''we messed up''. Not blaming one person/incident. Grrrr Vaughan is really getting under my skin lately.. in a negative way 
PhoenixFire
International Coach
And PietersenHow can you blame one man or one incident? They all played crap.. well instead of Collingwood. He is just looking for someone/incident to blame and it's wrong. They should all put their hands up and say ''we messed up''. Not blaming one person/incident. Grrrr Vaughan is really getting under my skin lately.. in a negative way
