Ireland and scotland to be kicked out by ecb

[roseboy64]

I'm not desperately fond of jumping in on Richard's side, but right now you're screaming that black is white.

England always has been England + Wales + Scotland + Ireland. Anyone who was any cop in any one of the home countries played (and still wants to play) for England. See Ed Joyce, Gavin Hamilton, Niall O'Brien.

Are you sure that's not because England play Test cricket. I wouldn't guarantee them still wanting to play for England if they could play Test cricket for their respective countries.

 

[Richard]

Did you not read my replies? How come you are not taking them on?

No, I didn't, because people asked me to stop going over the same stuff again.

May be because you were wrong? England represents England and Wales it might have represented the British Isles and it might have become traditions but guess what things change and traditions are broken. You never really have a good point to back this up and just shy away at the end of the discussions but then bring it up in another thread again. So I would like you to reply to all comments and than want to end this once and for all in this thread so you don't start the same old thing in a different one.

I couldn't give a **** whether things change, TBH - things also don't change. And they don't change far more often than they do.

There is no good reason to change this particular thing, other than to create the illusion of expansion.

 

[Prince EWS]

 

[LA ICE-E]

really there is no illusion of expansion...it real, go most of the players in argentina are home grown surely that's expansion...most of the teams in divsion 3 are home grown, and yes that's expansion. there is no need to create any illussion, if you paid attention to that you would know but you keep saying the illusion of expansion crap, but that explain to be why the icc wants to break up the british isles and it's 100 year old traditions for the llusion of expansion and not break up the 100 year old traditions of the Windies?

 

[Richard]

Blame Arunava.

 

[Prince EWS]

really there is no illusion of expansion...it real, go most of the players in argentina are home grown surely that's expansion...most of the teams in divsion 3 are home grown, and yes that's expansion. there is no need to create any illussion, if you paid attention to that you would know but you keep saying the illusion of expansion crap, but that explain to be why the icc wants to break up the british isles and it's 100 year old traditions for the llusion of expansion and not break up the 100 year old traditions of the Windies?

The reason why the West Indies aren't broken up is the fact that it would wreck a test standard nation. Removing Ireland and Scotland from England has absolutely no bearing on the performance of England and yet automatically produces two strong associate nations.

If they could split up the West Indies and still maintain the quality of cricket that the West Indies are producing from one of the newly formed splits, then I'm sure they'd encourage it.

 

[Prince EWS]

Blame Arunava.

I blame the irrelevant third person.

 

[Richard]

really there is no illusion of expansion...it real, go most of the players in argentina are home grown surely that's expansion...most of the teams in divsion 3 are home grown, and yes that's expansion. there is no need to create any illussion, if you paid attention to that you would know but you keep saying the illusion of expansion crap, but that explain to be why the icc wants to break up the british isles and it's 100 year old traditions for the llusion of expansion and not break up the 100 year old traditions of the Windies?

Because West Indies' are properly named, and that stops them from doing so. If "England" was named "The British Isles", they'd not be able to do a thing about that and would be stuck with the team being one.

I$C$C is concerned with creating the illusion of expansion. If Argentina, Kazakhstan or anywhere else becomes ODI\Test class very good, but right now it's patently obvious that none of them are. So it helps them to pretend they've got separate countries in Ireland and Scotland.

 

[Richard]

I blame the irrelevant third person.

 

[LA ICE-E]

The reason why the West Indies aren't broken up is the fact that it would wreck a test standard nation. Removing Ireland and Scotland from England has absolutely no bearing on the performance of England and yet automatically produces two strong associate nations.

If they could split up the West Indies and still maintain the quality of cricket that the West Indies are producing from one of the newly formed splits, then I'm sure they'd encourage it.

Well if the ICC cared more about the illusion of expansion than 100 year old traditions it would be likely they wouldn't care about test standards, look at zimbabwe...Why would they play Ireland and not IOR and NR and why would they have east africa, east and central africa etc and things like that.

Because West Indies' are properly named, and that stops them from doing so. If "England" was named "The British Isles", they'd not be able to do a thing about that and would be stuck with the team being one.

I$C$C is concerned with creating the illusion of expansion. If Argentina, Kazakhstan or anywhere else becomes ODI\Test class very good, but right now it's patently obvious that none of them are. So it helps them to pretend they've got separate countries in Ireland and Scotland.

If 100 year old tradition wasn't enough to do what you say they did, a name wouldn't either.
really last time I check you said neither Scotland nor Ireland were odi/test class. Expansion doesn't mean you have to have teams playing ODI's and Tests, expansion is you getting more and more people into the game that wasn't into it before, and looking at the teams in division 3 it's going well.

 

[Goughy]

One of the go to pieces of writing I have that Ive often used and recycled over the years is "Wales as a Test Nation" and I strongly believe in it.

There is no logical justification for Wales (and also Ireland and Scotland) not to be seperate cricketing entities. In fact there are a number of strong reasons as to why it is beneficial including but not limited to the increased number of slots available for teams to play Test and ODI cricket in the European summer.

The "as it was and so it shall stay" argument holds zero weight especially as they compete as seperate nations in everything from football to rugby to the Commonwealth Games and more.

Them being a part of English cricket is the exception to the norm not them seperating.

 

[Prince EWS]

Well if the ICC cared more about the illusion of expansion than 100 year old traditions it would be likely they wouldn't care about test standards, look at zimbabwe

They care about both. With Ireland, they can do the former while still preserving the latter. With Trinidad, Jamaica, Barbados etc they would be doing the former but NOT the latter, so they don't push for it.

 

[LA ICE-E]

They care about both. With Ireland, they can do the former while still preserving the latter. With Trinidad, Jamaica, Barbados etc they would be doing the former but NOT the latter, so they don't push for it.

this is really crap to say the ICC broke them up and is really just a conspiracy theory against them nothing else. really i don't think any of you guys pay any attention to the cricket other than being played by the elite countries. West Indies isn't that test class right now anyway, Bangladesh wasn't test class when they got test status, Zimbabwe isn't test class etc. etc. so if things happened according to that and the theory, they would break them up and just give each test status or give Jamaica test status and the rest odi status or something like that. But this is nothing but a conspiracy theory man.

 

[Prince EWS]

this is really crap to say the ICC broke them up and is really just a conspiracy theory against them nothing else.

I actually don't believe they did break them up because it's quite clear both Scotland and Ireland wanted to be separate. I was simply giving reason why they'd do so (if it was true) with England/Scotland/Ireland and not the West Indies.

 

[LA ICE-E]

One of the go to pieces of writing I have that Ive often used and recycled over the years is "Wales as a Test Nation" and I strongly believe in it.

There is no logical justification for Wales (and also Ireland and Scotland) not to be seperate cricketing entities. In fact there are a number of strong reasons as to why it is beneficial including but not limited to the increased number of slots available for teams to play Test and ODI cricket in the European summer.

The "as it was and so it shall stay" argument holds zero weight especially as they compete as seperate nations in everything from football to rugby to the Commonwealth Games and more.

Them being a part of English cricket is the exception to the norm not them seperating.

of thanks for bringing that up, so how does the theory back up Wales not being seperated? I mean that could have easily happened and would probably do better than ireland and Scotland currently.

 

[LA ICE-E]

I actually don't believe they did break them up because it's quite clear both Scotland and Ireland wanted to be separate. I was simply giving reason why they'd do so (if it was true) with England/Scotland/Ireland and not the West Indies.

Exactly, that what richard doesn't get Ireland and Scotland seperated because they wanted to not because of any thing relating to expansion.

 

[Goughy]

of thanks for bringing that up, so how does the theory back up Wales not being seperated? I mean that could have easily happened and would probably do better than ireland and Scotland currently.

They would be far better than Ireland and Scotland and they are currently at their weakest for a while. Though not all Welsh players are at Glamorgan.

 

[LA ICE-E]

so richard how is you theory holding up? does this issue end here once and for all or do you want to continue?

 

[Darren]

Me Babbling

Reading this thread I have realised how silly some people are. One, India had no reason to stay in the British Empire and Scotland and Ireland are not real countries. Sadly it is not well known that out of all the countries in the British Empire, Ireland wanted indpendance the most and were only part of Britain coz all the parliment was bribed and were all evenglical, scot and english desent while the native irish were catholic and were banned from parliment. it took 800 years for Ireland to achive independance, when it was split up into NI in UK and Ireland Seperate, also Ireland is not in the commonwealth which india are. and its insulting for someone to ingore this and now Scotland want independance. Also Scotland withdrew from the ECB in the early 90's and became a seprate cricket side. All contries in the British Isles have seprate teams in Rugby, soccer and everything else, in atletics and golf they play as Great Britian, which exculdes ROI. Ireland play together NI and ROI in rugby and cricket, but are sepreate in every other sport, wher NI are either seprate or with GB. Also why a Brtish Isles team. Realisticly do you think Scotland and ireland are going to produce quailty test crickets reguarly. Plus I think Scots and Irish should never play for england or any other team you are irish, joyce not english, it means nothing playing for england. So I hope i have show Scotland and Ireland are real countries and anyway the english wouldnt want a british isles team i assure u.

ECB only want to kick them out coz its an excuse to git rid of two teams which will let them shorten comp. Might dilute money are IRELAND and Scotland goin gto be a test playing nation soon, no so not many games will be on tv. ECB are greedy also.

aND ALSO iRISH GOVERNMENT DOES NOT LIKE THE TERM BRITISH ISLES AND EITHER DO I.

 

[Chemosit]

There is no illusion of expansion. Playing numbers in the associates have doubled in the last 12 months and have tripled in affiliate nations. These are home grown players who are learning to love and play the game on a regular basis. Given a fair opportunity rather than being kept down by such shortsighted organisations as the ECB, there are several countries out there who, in time, could develop into teams that can and will beat some of the current Test sides.

Aside from the dog-in-the-manger displayed in this case by the ECB, they are failing to grasp a potentially lucrative long term future. If Scotland and Ireland were allowed and encouraged to improve (and this would include not pinching their best players on the off chance they will make the Test side) a very healthy rivalry could develop between the three that could bring in plenty of dollars. As with most current cricket administrations however, misplaced and short sighted greed is going to get in the way.