***Official** West Indies in England***

[marc71178]

So if they weren't, how come they were barely selected in spite of having good figures when selected?

That fits the mediocre label pretty perfectly if you ask me, fortunately it was realised before either could do some serious damage to England's chances of beating the better opposition.

 

[Richard]

Johnson was regarded as a fine bowler for many, many years, and played a single Test against serious opposition - at Galle, that renowned seamer's paradise. That he failed there does not make me prepared to dismiss his Test credentials as mediocre. And he was not selected at other times for any number of reasons, often pertaining to injury.

Giddins was not in Johnson's class as a bowler, but had he been able to bat a little better I'd be prepared to guess he'd have played a few more times than he did. And had he not had several problems which did not pertain to his cricketing ability.

 

[FBU]

Squad for the 2nd Test was to be announced after the game but they have delayed it until noon tomorrow. Flintoff probably had a bowl today and they would want to see if he has any pain. I can see Flintoff coming back with his dodgy ankle. Vaughan will probably play with an injection and replace Shah. I can't think who Flintoff would replace. Going in with just Flintoff, Harmison and Plunkett looks like asking for trouble.

 

[Perm]

Really disappointed they only managed 20 overs yesterday, it certainly had the potential to be an exciting game if the weather played its part.

 

[wpdavid]

Squad for the 2nd Test was to be announced after the game but they have delayed it until noon tomorrow. Flintoff probably had a bowl today and they would want to see if he has any pain. I can see Flintoff coming back with his dodgy ankle. Vaughan will probably play with an injection and replace Shah. I can't think who Flintoff would replace. Going in with just Flintoff, Harmison and Plunkett looks like asking for trouble.

If Cricinfo are to be believed, England are getting themselves into a real mess for Friday. The implication is that after losing Hoggard early on at Lord's, they won't risk only 4 bowlers again. Which means either Flintoff plays at 6 when palpably unfit instead of getting him sorted out, and despite showing no form whatsoever with the bat for eons, or else Prior bats at 6 followed by 5 bowlers. Either way sounds like an invitation for the top 5 to fail and land us in heaps of trouble. Oh, and if Flintoff does bat at 6 & Vaughan returns, the suggestion is that Strauss will make way.

Now this may all be nothing more than one journalist's uneducated guesswork, but it's determination to stick to as much of the 2005 lineup no matter what does have a horrible ring of truth to it. It certainly smacks of desperation - i.e. we don't trust Harmison, Plunkett and ANOther to do the job, so we'll risk aggravating the injury of our best bowler for the sake of seeing off the weakest of the established test sides. Madness, all of it.

 

[Nishant]

Really disappointed they only managed 20 overs yesterday, it certainly had the potential to be an exciting game if the weather played its part.

yh...i was really disappointed...thought it may be close game that could have gone either way.

 

[Spitfires_Fan]

For the record, a guy on the Kent forum who was at the game last week where Harmison picked up wickets said the difference between Kent and the West Indies was that Kent managed to get bat on ball when Harmison sent it down the leg side and got themselves caught

So, looking at the fast bowlers in the country, we have as follows:

Hoggard - injured
Flintoff - coming back from injury
Jones - coming back from injury
Harmison - wayward
Plunkett - wayward
Lewis - injured
Broad - also injured?
Mahmood - available!
Onions - available!
Kabir Ali - available!
Khan - injured

I know for a fact that Martin Saggers is on his way back from injury and took a couple of wickets in the Kent leagues over the weekend - time for a call up I think!

It really does make depressing reading.

 

[grecian]

It does look a tad depressing, doesn't it?

I wonder if there's a case to recall an oldie, just for a one-off, whilst these injuries are so debilitating. Cork, Caddick, Chapple surely couldn't be worse then Plunkers or Mahmood. It worked with Martin Bicknell a few years back.

 

[cover drive man]

Such a good start I can't bielieve we couldn't get the win. Let's hope the lads play like this for the rest of the series.

 

[Richard]

It does look a tad depressing, doesn't it?

I wonder if there's a case to recall an oldie, just for a one-off, whilst these injuries are so debilitating. Cork, Caddick, Chapple surely couldn't be worse then Plunkers or Mahmood. It worked with Martin Bicknell a few years back.

Martin Bicknell was bowling well at the time, though - Caddick and Cork have never really looked the part for a few seasons now. Caddick is all over the place these days even if he's still capable of taking wickets and Cork is pretty much the opposite, a decent L&L bowler but doesn't take wickets the way he used to.

Even Chapple's record this season is far from impressive - being outbowled by the likes of Oliver Newby and Gary Keedy.

Darren Gough on the other hand - if he hadn't retired from Tests...

 

[Richard]

If Cricinfo are to be believed, England are getting themselves into a real mess for Friday. The implication is that after losing Hoggard early on at Lord's, they won't risk only 4 bowlers again. Which means either Flintoff plays at 6 when palpably unfit instead of getting him sorted out, and despite showing no form whatsoever with the bat for eons, or else Prior bats at 6 followed by 5 bowlers. Either way sounds like an invitation for the top 5 to fail and land us in heaps of trouble. Oh, and if Flintoff does bat at 6 & Vaughan returns, the suggestion is that Strauss will make way.

Now this may all be nothing more than one journalist's uneducated guesswork, but it's determination to stick to as much of the 2005 lineup no matter what does have a horrible ring of truth to it. It certainly smacks of desperation - i.e. we don't trust Harmison, Plunkett and ANOther to do the job, so we'll risk aggravating the injury of our best bowler for the sake of seeing off the weakest of the established test sides. Madness, all of it.

TBH, if there's genuine consideration of dropping Strauss, it can't be too much a case of trying to get the 2005 team.

If Flintoff doesn't play, it really would be madness to go in with five specialist bowlers. In fact, it'd be the most logic-defying thing you could wish to do. One bowler got injured one match - the odds of it happening 2 games in a row are minute (yes, I know, one man's thigh doesn't know what's happened in another man's calf the previous game, but the odds remain).

If Flintoff is not capable of bowling without severe pain, he shouldn't bowl. Simple as. I'm beginning to doubt he'll ever be completely free of trouble in that ankle for the rest of his career, but having him bowl in the current state would hardly help matters.

Perhaps it's good that more rain's forecast for the Test...

 

[Prince EWS]

Martin Bicknell was bowling well at the time, though - Caddick and Cork have never really looked the part for a few seasons now. Caddick is all over the place these days even if he's still capable of taking wickets and Cork is pretty much the opposite, a decent L&L bowler but doesn't take wickets the way he used to.

Even Chapple's record this season is far from impressive - being outbowled by the likes of Oliver Newby and Gary Keedy.

Darren Gough on the other hand - if he hadn't retired from Tests...

I reckon England'd be able to convince him to go back on that retirement. They won't though - especially with all the talk of moving forward with the new coach and leaving behind the demons.

 

[wpdavid]

For the record, a guy on the Kent forum who was at the game last week where Harmison picked up wickets said the difference between Kent and the West Indies was that Kent managed to get bat on ball when Harmison sent it down the leg side and got themselves caught

So, looking at the fast bowlers in the country, we have as follows:

Hoggard - injured
Flintoff - coming back from injury
Jones - coming back from injury
Harmison - wayward
Plunkett - wayward
Lewis - injured
Broad - also injured?
Mahmood - available!
Onions - available!
Kabir Ali - available!
Khan - injured

I know for a fact that Martin Saggers is on his way back from injury and took a couple of wickets in the Kent leagues over the weekend - time for a call up I think!

It really does make depressing reading.

James Kirtley maybe? Or Ryan Sidebottom?

 

[Pratters]

Mark Butcher's slow mediums?

 

[wpdavid]

Mark Butcher's slow mediums?

At least he'd make the batsmen play

Going back to my previous post, Kirtley may not be such a bad shout to replace Hoggard in soemthing of a one-off, given the form of the younger guys. Dunno what his figures are like this season though.

 

[Goughy]

James Kirtley maybe? Or Ryan Sidebottom?

Anderson doesnt appear to make the list either. Neither does Tremlett but Im guessing he is injured and fallen down the pecking order.

I like Kirtley but he is having a bad time of it recently averaging 80 a wicket this season.

Id personally never nominate Sidebottom.

Gough would be interesting. He is certainly still better than some of the English 2nd and 3rd tier guys and it would be a big story and good PR.

I would expect it to be
Harmison
Anderson
Plunkett

 

[wpdavid]

Anderson doesnt appear to make the list either. Neither does Tremlett but Im guessing he is injured and fallen down the pecking order.

I like Kirtley but he is having a bad time of it recently averaging 80 a wicket this season.

Id personally never nominate Sidebottom.

Gough would be interesting. He is certainly still better than some of the English 2nd and 3rd tier guys and it would be a big story and good PR.

I would expect it to be
Harmison
Anderson
Plunkett

I'd have thought so - I must admit I didn't spot Anderson's absence from the earlier list.

In what way would Gough's return be good PR btw?

 

[four_or_six]

Ryan Sidebottom

 

[Woodster]

Sidebottom and Anderson get the nod for 2nd Test squad.

 

[steds]

Hahaha. Widebottom? Wtf?