Why does England struggle to produce an abundance of quality strikers?

[aussie]

Well i really can't say if this has been the case throghout the history of the national side, but at least through the 90's to currently fron Lineker, Shearer, Owen & Rooney, England have just had one/two top-class striker accompanied buy a set of average one's which is poor compared to most of the major football nations.

Just look at things currently Brazil always are full of fire-power, Spain, Italy, France, Holland, Argentina have atleast 4/5 top quality strikers to call on while Portugal, Germany & Sweden probably have the same problem as England where we just Owen/Rooney with a set of mediocre players (although some may have been fairly useful i.e Sherringham & Crouch) which IMO is very strange given the amount of talent their is in mid-field & defense & the fact that no young striker anywhere can be said to be another top-quality goal-scoring force up front.

I don't know if its a problem with the youth system or whatever but given that other area's are so stocked with talent how come producing quality strikers seems to be such a rare commodity for England over the past 15 years?

 

[Prince EWS]

Football thread IMO.

 

[Turbinator]

Same reason why India struggles to produce fast bowlers.

 

[GIMH]

Football thread IMO.

It's not domestic football, though

 

[Barney Rubble]

Same reason why India struggles to produce fast bowlers.

The pitches aren't helpful?

 

[GIMH]

Anyway, the answer to your question, aussie, is that we do not need an abundance, we have the master:

took that myself, good eh

 

[Prince EWS]

It's not domestic football, though

Will remember that come the non-NRL state of origin matches.

EDIT: Damn the rugby league thread! Guy is sooo dead for that.

 

[speirz]

Will remember that come the non-NRL state of origin matches.

EDIT: Damn the rugby league thread! Guy is sooo dead for that.

Just create a general soccer/football thread then.

 

[GIMH]

Will remember that come the non-NRL state of origin matches.

EDIT: Damn the rugby league thread! Guy is sooo dead for that.

I have no idea what you're going on about, but this board would be dull as hell if it was simply rigid threads for each sport...

 

[BoyBrumby]

Will remember that come the non-NRL state of origin matches.

EDIT: Damn the rugby league thread! Guy is sooo dead for that.

Fairly sure there's an Origin Thread somewhere if you can be arsed to search for it.

Anyway, WRT the matter in hand I'd disagree with aussie's initial assertion that it's been a problem for the last 15 years. When we had Sir Alan banging them in the mid-late 90s we had reserves of the calibre of Sir Les & guys like Matt Le Tissier & Mad Stan (who we'd kill for nowadays) hardly got a look in at international level.

IMHO the reason that the problem has become more pronounced is that there are fewer English players playing in the top flight than ever. Someone like Defoe, who's a fixture in England squads, doesn't get a regular start for the Spuds. Premiership teams have no direct duty to serve the England team, of course & ultimately a lot of fans prefer success for their club over their country.

 

[GIMH]

The words "golden generation my arse" spring to mind tbh

A golden generation that basically consists of two world-class midfielders that can't play together, a drug-taking, arrogant, dire human being at centre back, a goalkeeper who, let's face it, isn't exactly great, a money-mad wanker of a left-back, a great but crocked centre-forward and a hot-headed scouse manc. And Darren Bent.

Dire.

 

[steds]

Fairly sure there's an Origin Thread somewhere if you can be arsed to search for it.

Two iirc.

 

[steds]

very strange given the amount of talent their is in mid-field & defense

Not really. How many defenders and midfielders do England have that are genuinely world class? At a push, possibly Neville and Gerrard.

 

[Goughy]

Back in the mid-late 90s all the talk was on how England produces more strikers than anyone else and how the then current young players would be a legendary group by 2004 and 2006. That group included guys like Jeffers, Owen, Defore, Joachim, Scholes, Cadamarteri*cough* etc

It just obviously hasnt panned out that way. I dont think there is an issue with England producing strikers I just think people overreact when things are good and also when things dont look so rosy.

These guys also had a tough task of taking the mantle from a very good group including Fowler, Shearer, Sheringham, Ferdinand, Le Tis, Cole etc

I also think there is an English disease that underrates English talent compared to the more exotic and fashionable foreign players (maybe less so now than it was).

I dont think England are particularly worse off than many other countries, especially since things are at a particular low right now. Give it a few years and it will right itself. I dont think there is anything fundamentally wrong with the system

 

[BoyBrumby]

I also think there is an English disease that underrates English talent compared to the more exotic and fashionable foreign players (maybe less so now than it was).

I'd say the exact reverse was true, actually. We're forever talking England & English players up only to end up with egg all over our faces when we crash & burn against less heralded but more skillful & better organised teams.

The Gerrard/Lampard situation is a case in point. Anyone with the vaguest acquaitance with the sport can see they're too similar as players & seem to be too ****ing dim to work out how to play with each other. What's needed is a strong manager who'll have the testes to take the issue on & drop one of them; instead we have "Not Bloody" Steve McClaren who continues to attempt to make a system around the big name players rather than vice versa.

£17.5m for Hargreaves is also insanity (when you think £10.5m got the Spuds Berbatov last year) which can only be due to his putative Englishness.

 

[Goughy]

No doubt English players are overvalued however most peoples appreciation of foreign players leads for them to be overrated. There is obviously a not too sutble difference and different forces at work.

The majority of football fans dont watch the major domestic European leagues or games in European Competition that dont involve English teams.

What they know of overseas players is based on reputation and 30 second highlights. They dont see them week in and week out and dont get exposed to their full game and their human weaknesses.

Probably the best example would be Roberto Carlos who has a profile of a demi-god in football but is and has been a severly limited left-back.

People only get to see the good stuff and are not exposed to the big picture.

 

[Turbinator]

The pitches aren't helpful?

 

[BoyBrumby]

No doubt English players are overvalued however most peoples appreciation of foreign players leads for them to be overrated. There is obviously a not too sutble difference and different forces at work.

The majority of football fans dont watch the major domestic European leagues or games in European Competition that dont involve English teams.

What they know of overseas players is based on reputation and 30 second highlights. They dont see them week in and week out and dont get exposed to their full game and their human weaknesses.

Probably the best example would be Roberto Carlos who has a profile of a demi-god in football but is and has been a severly limited left-back.

People only get to see the good stuff and are not exposed to the big picture.

Well there's some truth in what you say about foreign players who play abroad, but obviously one doesn't have to watch foreign football to see foreign players nowadays. You don't have to be a footballing anorak to see that (say) Drogba, Henry & Berbatov > Crouch, Defoe & Bent.

 

[Goughy]

Well there's some truth in what you say about foreign players who play abroad, but obviously one doesn't have to watch foreign football to see foreign players nowadays. You don't have to be a footballing anorak to see that (say) Drogba, Henry & Berbatov > Crouch, Defoe & Bent.

Agreed but the players you mention are from areas as widespread as Africa, Western Europe and Eastern Europe. It isnt a fair comparison regarding a nations strength.

Counting Owen and Rooney as 1 and 2 and therefore Crouch at 3 and Dafoe at #4. Who are the 4th ranked Bulgarian and Ivorian strikers?

 

[BoyBrumby]

Agreed but the players you mention are from areas as widespread as Africa, Western Europe and Eastern Europe. It isnt a fair comparison regarding a nations strength.

Counting Owen and Rooney as 1 and 2 and therefore Crouch at 3 and Dafoe at #4. Who are the 4th ranked Bulgarian and Ivorian strikers?

Not a clue; but just 'cos I've never heard of them doesn't necessarily follow that they're not any good. Which goes back to my point about foreign players being unheralded compared to our own. As I said earlier the Spuds picked up Berbatov for (probably) less than they'd ask for Defoe, it's a no-brainer as to who's better value; English players seem to come with VAT which is pricing them out of their own market.

Take the game against Croatia as an example; we English (myself included as I recall) were fairly confident of a result only to be embarrassed by a pratically unheard of (over here at least) Croatian/Brazilian who showed far better technique than any of our overpaid & (frankly) overrated strikers.