Where to for NZ cricket in the next few years?

[Flem274*]

Taylor will be in the next test team I reckon

I think you're right but I hope not, he's off form and doesn't have the FC record or technique to be there (bar the double hundred).

IF he is used, then he should be at 6 or 7 in an almost finishing position. Taylor at 6 could be devastating but with new players and inconsistent players in the top order I'd want some solid players (Fleming, Fulton) in the middle order to guard against a collapse.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

Houpapa
Southee
Bennet
Hay
Gronholme
Broom
Nicol

The NZ a team as published can be found here:

http://www.blackcaps.co.nz/display.aspx?pri=36&sec=68&cid=6133&tpl=0

In summary,

James Marshall (Captain)
Neil Broom
Grant Elliott
Gareth Hopkins (wk)
Jamie How
Nathan McCullum
James McMillan
Warren McSkimming
Rob Nicol
Iain O'Brien
Mark Orchard
Michael Papps
Aaron Redmond
Bradley Scott

Craig Cumming and Jesse Ryder were unavailable.

Why they're even wasting their time with James Marshall.... Well, don't get me started, eh!

Of the seven names you mentioned, Flem, Nicol and Broom deserve to be there, Southee is a great prospect, but I think he needs another year before he deserves consideration. Houpapa hasn't really done anything to warrant inclusion in the A team, and Colin de Grandhomme will need to do a LOT more to get ahead of the long queue of middle-order batsman waiting in the wings. I saw him play at the Basin this year, and he looked vaguely okay, certainly nothing special.

Also, you mentioned BJ Watling. I keep hearing him mentioned as a great prospect, but from all I've seen of him, he's massively overrated. He looks laboured with the gloves on and pedestrian with the bat.

 

[Flem274*]

The NZ a team as published can be found here:

http://www.blackcaps.co.nz/display.aspx?pri=36&sec=68&cid=6133&tpl=0

In summary,

James Marshall (Captain)
Neil Broom
Grant Elliott
Gareth Hopkins (wk)
Jamie How
Nathan McCullum
James McMillan
Warren McSkimming
Rob Nicol
Iain O'Brien
Mark Orchard
Michael Papps
Aaron Redmond
Bradley Scott

Craig Cumming and Jesse Ryder were unavailable.

Why they're even wasting their time with James Marshall.... Well, don't get me started, eh!

Of the seven names you mentioned, Flem, Nicol and Broom deserve to be there, Southee is a great prospect, but I think he needs another year before he deserves consideration. Houpapa hasn't really done anything to warrant inclusion in the A team, and Colin de Grandhomme will need to do a LOT more to get ahead of the long queue of middle-order batsman waiting in the wings. I saw him play at the Basin this year, and he looked vaguely okay, certainly nothing special.

Exactly right!

Papps won't be there long, he's gonna get a test call up soon.

EDIT; i forgot about McCullum and McMillan which is strange because I've been banging on about mcMillan especially for ages and boring everyone silly.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

So what do you think the team for the next test match?

Should be:

1. Michael Papps
2. ????
3. Stephen Fleming
4. Peter Fulton/Mathew Sinclair
5. Ross Taylor
6. Scott Styris
7. Jake Oram
8. Brendan McCullum
9. Daniel Vettori
10. Shane Bond
11. ????

If Bracewell's in Charge

1. Hamish Marshall
2. James Marshall
3. Jamish Marshall
4. Hames Marshall
etc. etc.

 

[Flem274*]

So what do you think the team for the next test match?

Should be:

1. Michael Papps
2. ????
3. Stephen Fleming
4. Peter Fulton/Mathew Sinclair
5. Ross Taylor
6. Scott Styris
7. Jake Oram
8. Brendan McCullum
9. Daniel Vettori
10. Shane Bond
11. ????

If Bracewell's in Charge

1. Hamish Marshall
2. James Marshall
3. Jamish Marshall
4. Hames Marshall
etc. etc.

We are playing the saffies i think so

Papps
Vincent
Sinclair
Fleming
Fulton
Oram
McCullum
Vettori
Franklin
Mills
Bond

Styris not as good as others on bouncy pitches. Could even use another seamer as spin is inferior to seam in SA. Mills average for 2006 provided by Athlai (18.6) very impressive.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

Playing the South Africans? Not in South Africa, we only played them last year didn't we?

I'm a huge fan of James Franklin, but I think he needs a good firm kick up the backside, or a least learn to put the ball in the same place two deliveries in a row. I somehow have the feeling he wouldn't have a single test cap if he couldn't bat as well as he can.

Kyle Mills is another tough one. His bowling figures in the last couple of years are pretty good, and he played pretty well in the ICCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCT last year, but it does largely depend on which Kyle Mills turns up. And if he comes out to bat at #3 again in a 'tactical masterstroke' I will give up supporting the BlackCaps and in fact cricket as a whole and start playing netball.

 

[Fiery]

Playing the South Africans? Not in South Africa, we only played them last year didn't we?

I'm a huge fan of James Franklin, but I think he needs a good firm kick up the backside, or a least learn to put the ball in the same place two deliveries in a row. I somehow have the feeling he wouldn't have a single test cap if he couldn't bat as well as he can.

Kyle Mills is another tough one. His bowling figures in the last couple of years are pretty good, and he played pretty well in the ICCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCT last year, but it does largely depend on which Kyle Mills turns up. And if he comes out to bat at #3 again in a 'tactical masterstroke' I will give up supporting the BlackCaps and in fact cricket as a whole and start playing netball.

I actually didn't think trying Mills at 3 was that bad an idea.. OK, he got out 2nd ball but as Ian Chappell said on the tour of Aus, he probably has the best batting technique of all the Black Caps and a pretty damn good 1st class average.

 

[Flem274*]

Playing the South Africans? Not in South Africa, we only played them last year didn't we?

I'm a huge fan of James Franklin, but I think he needs a good firm kick up the backside, or a least learn to put the ball in the same place two deliveries in a row. I somehow have the feeling he wouldn't have a single test cap if he couldn't bat as well as he can.

Kyle Mills is another tough one. His bowling figures in the last couple of years are pretty good, and he played pretty well in the ICCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCT last year, but it does largely depend on which Kyle Mills turns up. And if he comes out to bat at #3 again in a 'tactical masterstroke' I will give up supporting the BlackCaps and in fact cricket as a whole and start playing netball.

Yup its them in SA.

Jimmy Franklin has always been a good test bowler, it's ODI's he isnt crash hot in. Mills has been consistently good in the past 18 months. Martin should be considered too, he is quite good against them for some reason. I doubt Mills will bat at 3 again, that place is reserved for Hamish or James Marshall.

 

[Flem274*]

I actually didn't think trying Mills at 3 was that bad an idea.. OK, he got out 2nd ball but as Ian Chappell said on the tour of Aus, he probably has the best batting technique of all the Black Caps and a pretty damn good 1st class average.

Didn't Parore open and bat at 3 for us back in the day?

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

I actually didn't think trying Mills at 3 was that bad an idea.. OK, he got out 2nd ball but as Ian Chappell said on the tour of Aus, he probably has the best batting technique of all the Black Caps and a pretty damn good 1st class average.

But what was there to gain from putting Mills in at 3? It shows a complete lack of confidence in the players in the team to actually bat! The idea stunk, no matter how good Mills batting average is, using international cricket as your experimental playground makes a mockery of the importance of the match.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

Didn't Parore open and bat at 3 for us back in the day?

The rest of the team wanted him out on the field for as long as possible to minimise the opportunity for him to nab their wallets.

 

[Fiery]

But what was there to gain from putting Mills in at 3? It shows a complete lack of confidence in the players in the team to actually bat! The idea stunk, no matter how good Mills batting average is, using international cricket as your experimental playground makes a mockery of the importance of the match.

Yeah but there's no harm in trying something different if things aren't working. You wont find out anything if you don't experiment a bit sometimes. In this case it didn't come off. Another day he might have scored a ton, decided to concentrate more on his batting and sealed a spot there.

 

[Flem274*]

The rest of the team wanted him out on the field for as long as possible to minimise the opportunity for him to nab their wallets.

He's not that bad is he?.......

 

[Fiery]

The rest of the team wanted him out on the field for as long as possible to minimise the opportunity for him to nab their wallets.

I assume you're referring to "diamondgate"?

 

[Flem274*]

I assume you're referring to the "diamondgate"?

Whats diamond gate? sounds rather expensive....

 

[Fiery]

Didn't Parore open and bat at 3 for us back in the day?

Yep, his best position was 4 if you look at his stats...

 

[Fiery]

Whats diamond gate? sounds rather expensive....

While on tour of SA the players took a tour to a diamond mine and some diamonds "went missing" apparently. Parore was prime suspect. There are rumours it was settled behind the scenes by management and he was made to return them, but that is just rumour and someone else here might have a more correct version of events, I don't know.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

Yeah but there's no harm in trying something different if things aren't working. You wont find out anything if you don't experiment a bit sometimes. In this case it didn't come off. Another day he might have scored a ton, decided to concentrate more on his batting and sealed a spot there.

Experimentation is fine in certain circumstances. Its also a lot easier with bowlers than batsman. If the bowling line-up isn't firing, then a part timer can often find success, I just fail to see what there is to gain by bringing a bowler into a batsman's position under normal (non-nigh****chman) circumstances. It would piss me off no end of one of my team's bowlers came in ahead of me to bat. With bowlers, its a bit different because if the bowlers haven't taken a wicket then they become tired and then there is a place for part timers and experimentation, but this won't be the case with batsmen, in fact, quite often the bowler being promoted to #3 would have shouldered a heavy workload before having to bat. As I say, I just can't see what there is to gain. If Mills had scored some runs, I really can't see that it would have suddenly meant that he would have become a batting all-rounder.

I assume you're referring to the "diamondgate"?

I couldn't possibly comment on that

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

Parore was prime suspect.

And the prime suspect in another number of kleptomania related stories too.

 

[Flem274*]

Experimentation is fine in certain circumstances. Its also a lot easier with bowlers than batsman. If the bowling line-up isn't firing, then a part timer can often find success, I just fail to see what there is to gain by bringing a bowler into a batsman's position under normal (non-nigh****chman) circumstances. It would piss me off no end of one of my team's bowlers came in ahead of me to bat. With bowlers, its a bit different because if the bowlers haven't taken a wicket then they become tired and then there is a place for part timers and experimentation, but this won't be the case with batsmen, in fact, quite often the bowler being promoted to #3 would have shouldered a heavy workload before having to bat. As I say, I just can't see what there is to gain. If Mills had scored some runs, I really can't see that it would have suddenly meant that he would have become a batting all-rounder.



I couldn't possibly comment on that

Hmm I think if they score runs down the order like Franklin then they could get a go up the order. I wouldn't have a problem with Franklin batting at 5 or 6 as an experiment for example.