***Official** West Indies in England***

[Goughy]

550 was about right , England could have batted this morning and added 150 to their total. On such a inactive surface , and conditions that haven't helped swing terribly (well the bowlers haven't helped themselves either) , a 700 total wouldn't have helped much. I would have meant less time for bowling the West Indies out..

It can actually give you far more time as the liklihood of batting for a second time is greatly reduced and it is the 2nd innings where caution must be exercised and time is wasted when an excess of runs is accumulated make sure defeat is avoided..

 

[social]

England should feel quite comfortable at the moment, really. All they need to do is get Chanderpaul during the first session - the way he is playing at the moment, it is unlikely he will go after the bowlers and score a lot of runs...A target of 350+ for the WI in the 3.5 sessions would give England plenty of leg room to try and get the WI out and at the same time give the windies a whiff at a win which will ensure that they dont turn the fourth innings into a block-fest.

350 is a lot of runs to score in the last innings but if the wicket continues to play the way it is at present, I wouldnt be comfortable leaving the oppo that to score in 3.5 sessions.

Eng stuck at it well today but the WI gave them plenty of help and they should really have mounted a score comparable to Eng's.

Barring a collapse, I think that a draw is the strong favourite

 

[social]

It can actually give you far more time as the liklihood of batting for a second time is greatly reduced and it is the 2nd innings where caution must be exercised and time is wasted when an excess of runs is accumulated make sure defeat is avoided..

Goughy, what are your thoughts on Harmison's action?

To me, he looked like he had the same faults as in Oz - arm past the perpendicular with body leaning to the off-side

 

[Goughy]

Goughy, what are your thoughts on Harmison's action?

To me, he looked like he had the same faults as in Oz - arm past the perpendicular with body leaning to the off-side

ha, Im just in the middle of writing a post on it.

If you wait a few mins you can have a look

 

[steds]

Congratulations to Mr. Harmison on breaking the 1 wide per Test barrier today, btw. Currently sits on 54 in his 51st Test.

 

[marc71178]

In the thread there were 4 best case scenario seam attacks, England only have one of their four available to bowl from that and Harmison has never liked bowling at Lord's.

Did people forget to tell him that in 2005?

 

[Goughy]

Goughy, what are your thoughts on Harmison's action?

To me, he looked like he had the same faults as in Oz - arm past the perpendicular with body leaning to the off-side

As Requested

 

[social]

As Requested

Thanks mate

 

[Perm]

Nice to see Ramdin scoring a few runs.

 

[The Baconator]

Yeah good player. Hopefully he can make some more for himself as well.

 

[gettingbetter]

I wonder how long the selectors' patience will last with Harmison? There's no doubt he can be a fine bowler, he just doesn't seem to do it for England anymore. Trouble is, there isn't really anyone any better to replace him.

I'd say that he will probably play the summer out.

How many games do you think Plunkey-boy will play this summer? I was looking at the scorecards from the last England summer and they had Plunky, Lewis and Mahmood playing tests - are they still going for the quick fix or do you think that they are looking for someone to have an extended run in the team?

IMO, I can't see Plunkett playing more than two tests and then Anderson will be bought back into the team, but I really do doubt that they will make a double change and replace Harmison with Mahmood. The only other change that is forseeable is someone replacing Hoggard.

Overall. England need 5 bowlers - don't argue that point.

 

[social]

I'd say that he will probably play the summer out.



Overall. England need 5 bowlers - don't argue that point.

The tactic of playing 4 bowlers is based largely on the success enjoyed by Aus and WI with this tactic

People who suggest that it should be the norm forget that those 2 teams had all-time greats with phenomenal stamina/limited overs in the day.

An attack of say Harmy, Hoggard, Flintoff and Panesar is far, far removed from the lineups employed by the other two teams

 

[Prince EWS]

Tell me - have you seen Prior bat before? I certainly have, and I was prepared to say his shot-selection was poor on those occasions. Even though I've seen him score runs several times - even in the short game.

I'd only seen him bat in the ODIs against Pakistan he played, and while I thought his shot selection was poor in that series, I expected as much anyway because:
a) His List A average suggested as much.
b) His role was to score quickly by hitting boundries at the top of the innings - so often a failed role, especially by the good-first-class-batsman-but-poor-List-A-batsman types.

Nevertheless, I was impressed with his technique and I'd say, if his shot selection really was anywhere close to as bad as Jones's, it would have shown up in the innings he played. Even in his ton against NZ, Jones's shot selection was poor and showed up so - he just got away with it. Prior may indeed have a problem deciding when to play a shot at all and when not to (however that is yet to be seen, on my part) - however I don't think I actually saw him play the completely wrong shot to any ball at all during his innings which Jones has done even when scoring runs.

Yes, Prior's First-Class career pre-Test-debut was longer than Jones', but TBH I don't find it especially inconceivable that Jones would have continued to score runs had he been left at Kent.

You mentioned Jones's first class record after his first season, but what exactly was his record like on debut? I could be wrong admittedly, but I don't remember it pushing 40 at the time. Nor do I think it would be as good an indication as Prior's in any rate due to, as I said, the length of their careers.

We simply have to wait and see how Prior goes. I am never keen on getting too excited about someone because of one Test innings, whoever that may be.

Oh, I completely agree. Prior still has a lot to do before people should start jumping up and down. I just don't like the idea of the failures of a completely different player being held against him in people's minds. Forget Jones - watch Prior play and make your judgements on that. You seem to have done so already somewhat, which is perfectly fine as you've seen him play before - but I really don't think Jones should be brought into it.

 

[Salamuddin]

The tactic of playing 4 bowlers is based largely on the success enjoyed by Aus and WI with this tactic

People who suggest that it should be the norm forget that those 2 teams had all-time greats with phenomenal stamina/limited overs in the day.

An attack of say Harmy, Hoggard, Flintoff and Panesar is far, far removed from the lineups employed by the other two teams

If you're going in witrh a 4 man attack., you need 4 guys who can bowl consistently well. You cannot afford a loose cannon like Harmison.
Witha five man attack there is a bit more leeway, but really the five man attack worked well for England in 2004/2005 because they had two strike men operating effectively viz Flintoff and Simon Jones.
With Jones out, England have only guy who's consistently on the money and is a genuine strike bowler....Flintoff.

 

[BoyBrumby]

You mentioned Jones's first class record after his first season, but what exactly was his record like on debut? I could be wrong admittedly, but I don't remember it pushing 40 at the time. Nor do I think it would be as good an indication as Prior's in any rate due to, as I said, the length of their careers.

If one goes by CricketArchive, his FC average immediately before his test debut was (according to my maths) 37.25, if you include the two FC matches he played for England XIs whilst on tour in SL & the Windies. Linky:

http://www.cricketarchive.com/Archive/Players/34/34355/f_Batting_by_Season.html

Debateable whether one could really call that "pushing 40".

 

[Prince EWS]

If one goes by CricketArchive, his FC average immediately before his test debut was (according to my maths) 37.25, if you include the two FC matches he played for England XIs whilst on tour in SL & the Windies. Linky:

http://www.cricketarchive.com/Archive/Players/34/34355/f_Batting_by_Season.html

Debateable whether one could really call that "pushing 40".

Fair enough then - it certainly isn't very far off Prior's at all. Still though, Prior has proven it over a much longer period and, sure enough, Jones's average, even if you remove test cricket, has dropped since then.

 

[Ash_A55]

Wehey start of the 4th day...........

 

[chalky]

I'd say that he will probably play the summer out.

How many games do you think Plunkey-boy will play this summer? I was looking at the scorecards from the last England summer and they had Plunky, Lewis and Mahmood playing tests - are they still going for the quick fix or do you think that they are looking for someone to have an extended run in the team?

IMO, I can't see Plunkett playing more than two tests and then Anderson will be bought back into the team, but I really do doubt that they will make a double change and replace Harmison with Mahmood. The only other change that is forseeable is someone replacing Hoggard.

Overall. England need 5 bowlers - don't argue that point.

I hope Anderson doesn't play for me he must be the most be one of the most overrated players in English cricket at test level. I just don't see how he can get good batsmen out since his action was revised he has lost pace and rarely swings the ball. He isn't accurate enough to build up pressure and doesn't have an accurate seam. Although Plunkett and Mahmood are far from the finished articles they at least will produce the odd wicket taking ball which is more than Anderson will.

BTW what has happened to Tremlett he seemed to have a bit about him a few years ago.

 

[Scaly piscine]

I don't think England like selecting injury prone fringe players. Chalk up another edged four off Plunkett... grrrr

 

[Perm]

Haha, I knew that one would really grate you scaly.