Where to for NZ cricket in the next few years?

[HeathDavisSpeed]

Excellent - a thread about second string Kiwis.

Now... what's my opinion. Well, ignoring those who are already firmly settled in the team or have had their chance, and restricting myself to under 30s - who are the next generation of Kiwis coming through.

Opening. Tough slot. McIntosh is poor, Todd Astle only gets as many column inches as he does because of his surname, Sam Fairley is a pile of ****e. I'm gonna be controversial and open with Peter Ingram (great season) and Aaron Redmond (how's that for a bolter). Redmond is a much better batsman than some of the other names that get bandied about as opening options for NZ - Cumming, How, McIntosh etc and he does some some (albeit) limited experience opening.

In the middle order, Ross Taylor and Jesse Ryder are certainties with other options of one out of Brandon Hiini, Broom, Rob Nicol, Shanan Stewart, Iain Robertson and Nick Horsley. I'm plumping for Hiini - his really had to fight for his spot in the Canterbury team and he's a player who's really up for it. I think he actually offers more with the bat than the ball, but his medium/fast-medium seamers are a useful add-on.

The all-rounder is probably Grant Elliott, though I can find room for both him and Bradley Scott. The keeper comes down to Bevan Griggs or Stu Mills to my mind. Being a Wellington lad, I could easily bow to the heart and pick Mills, but I like the look of Griggs so I'll pick him.

After Scott, the 9/10/11 pick themselves. Graeme Aldridge is a top #9. How he's never had a test cap when people like Iain O'Brien and Shayne O'Connor have I'll never know. Gillespie at 10 and Jeets at 11

Peter Ingram (Central Districts)
Aaron Redmond (Otago)
Ross Taylor (*) (Central Districts)
Jesse Ryder (Wellington)
Brandon Hiini (Canterbury)
Grant Elliott (Wellington)
Bevan Griggs (+) (Central Districts)
Brad Scott (Otago)
Graeme Aldridge (Northern Districts)
Mark Gillespie (Wellington)
Jeetan Patel (Wellington)

 

[Flem274*]

Excellent - a thread about second string Kiwis.

Now... what's my opinion. Well, ignoring those who are already firmly settled in the team or have had their chance, and restricting myself to under 30s - who are the next generation of Kiwis coming through.

Opening. Tough slot. McIntosh is poor, Todd Astle only gets as many column inches as he does because of his surname, Sam Fairley is a pile of ****e. I'm gonna be controversial and open with Peter Ingram (great season) and Aaron Redmond (how's that for a bolter). Redmond is a much better batsman than some of the other names that get bandied about as opening options for NZ - Cumming, How, McIntosh etc and he does some some (albeit) limited experience opening.

In the middle order, Ross Taylor and Jesse Ryder are certainties with other options of one out of Brandon Hiini, Broom, Rob Nicol, Shanan Stewart, Iain Robertson and Nick Horsley. I'm plumping for Hiini - his really had to fight for his spot in the Canterbury team and he's a player who's really up for it. I think he actually offers more with the bat than the ball, but his medium/fast-medium seamers are a useful add-on.

The all-rounder is probably Grant Elliott, though I can find room for both him and Bradley Scott. The keeper comes down to Bevan Griggs or Stu Mills to my mind. Being a Wellington lad, I could easily bow to the heart and pick Mills, but I like the look of Griggs so I'll pick him.

After Scott, the 9/10/11 pick themselves. Graeme Aldridge is a top #9. How he's never had a test cap when people like Iain O'Brien and Shayne O'Connor have I'll never know. Gillespie at 10 and Jeets at 11

Peter Ingram (Central Districts)
Aaron Redmond (Otago)
Ross Taylor (*) (Central Districts)
Jesse Ryder (Wellington)
Brandon Hiini (Canterbury)
Grant Elliott (Wellington)
Bevan Griggs (+) (Central Districts)
Brad Scott (Otago)
Graeme Aldridge (Northern Districts)
Mark Gillespie (Wellington)
Jeetan Patel (Wellington)

I'd swap Griggs for McGlashan or Hopkins, but thats just my opinion.

Taylor at three? no...just no. 5 is better for him

Nicol should be in there, and in my biased opinion Greg Hay too.

Now Hini rings a bell, but I honestly cannot think why...

 

[Perm]

TBH I wouldn't have Grant Elliot in there, considering Redmond and Ryder can both bowl a bit. Nicol would be one of the first batsman to go down on my team sheet, he has been very impressive in recent seasons, especially in FC cricket.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

TBH I wouldn't have Grant Elliot in there, considering Redmond and Ryder can both bowl a bit. Nicol would be one of the first batsman to go down on my team sheet, he has been very impressive in recent seasons, especially in FC cricket.

The trouble with middle-order bats (like Nicol, Broom, Hay) is that there are so many options, and with Taylor and Ryder certainties for the team, that leaves only one slot for another middle order bat.

I picked Hiini. I could easily have picked Nicol. In fact, Nicol would have been my 12th man. Broom or Hay could easily displace either and Iain Robertson doesn't look too bad an option (needs another season)

As for Elliott, yes Ryder and Redmond can bowl a bit, but frankly they wouldn't take many wickets at international level. Ryder's bowling has hardly been used by Ireland so far and tbh he's only a good bowling option in one-dayers where an attempt to force the pace against him can prove costly or on a seaming wicket. Bowl Ryder on a flat deck and he's gonna go for Plenty!

As for the 'keeper. My team is based on players under 30 years old - hence Hopkins ain't in there. He'd be the obvious choice otherwise. As for McGlashan, I know the international selectors seem to like him, but I've not seen anything from him other than an annoying tendancy to stand up to bowlers where he doesn't have the skill or speed to keep adequately 'up' to bowlers of that pace. His batting is a pile of ****e as well.

That really leaves Griggs, Stu Mills, BJ Watling or (achem) another South African in Kruger van Wyk. I'll stick with Griggs for now, though Mills or Watling could overhaul him in a couple of years.

I think the team I've outlined shows great batting depth (batting down to Scott at #8, and Aldridge is a genuine number 9) and then a good variety of bowling options - Gillespie and Aldridge are genuine opening bowlers, Elliott and Scott are good first changes, Jeets was an obvious choice (Robbie Schaw could overtake him in my team next year) and then Hiini, Redmond and Ryder provide decent 2nd change options - all three being better than 'part-timers'. In a real bind, Taylor can bowl his little spinners as well.

 

[_Ed_]

As for the 'keeper. My team is based on players under 30 years old - hence Hopkins ain't in there. He'd be the obvious choice otherwise. As for McGlashan, I know the international selectors seem to like him, but I've not seen anything from him other than an annoying tendancy to stand up to bowlers where he doesn't have the skill or speed to keep adequately 'up' to bowlers of that pace. His batting is a pile of ****e as well.

That really leaves Griggs, Stu Mills, BJ Watling or (achem) another South African in Kruger van Wyk. I'll stick with Griggs for now, though Mills or Watling could overhaul him in a couple of years.

How about de Boorder? Looks a good talent to me.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

How about de Boorder? Looks a good talent to me.

Neither de Boorder is there yet, obviously; and I haven't really seen enough of Derek or Andrew to comment. I hear decent things, but then I remember hearing great things of Jared Englefield at the same age.

 

[The Big Cheese]

Excellent - a thread about second string Kiwis.

You've dug deep for this one. I only vaguely remember saying anything on it.

Opening. Tough slot. McIntosh is poor, Todd Astle only gets as many column inches as he does because of his surname, Sam Fairley is a pile of ****e. I'm gonna be controversial and open with Peter Ingram (great season) and Aaron Redmond (how's that for a bolter). Redmond is a much better batsman than some of the other names that get bandied about as opening options for NZ - Cumming, How, McIntosh etc and he does some some (albeit) limited experience opening.

You've forgotten Papps, someone who averaged about 91 last FC season OPENING! Won best domestic batter at this years NZ cricket awards. How for mine is a great talent, far better than Redmond who looks and plays like a domestic batsman, not an international player in my mind. I haven't seen much of Ingram play, so no comment there...

In the middle order, Ross Taylor and Jesse Ryder are certainties with other options of one out of Brandon Hiini, Broom, Rob Nicol, Shanan Stewart, Iain Robertson and Nick Horsley. I'm plumping for Hiini - his really had to fight for his spot in the Canterbury team and he's a player who's really up for it. I think he actually offers more with the bat than the ball, but his medium/fast-medium seamers are a useful add-on.

Yeah id rather play Fulton, whos only 27 or so isn't he? Otherwise Greg Hay, Rob Nicol, rather than this Hiini guy. Hiini has only been around for a season or so, don't peg your hopes on him.

The all-rounder is probably Grant Elliott, though I can find room for both him and Bradley Scott. The keeper comes down to Bevan Griggs or Stu Mills to my mind. Being a Wellington lad, I could easily bow to the heart and pick Mills, but I like the look of Griggs so I'll pick him.

What happened to McCullum? The guy is only 25! He could play for 10 years more! Looking eleven or twelve years into the future of NZ cricket is WAY too far! There could easily be a young hotshot by that time etc.

After Scott, the 9/10/11 pick themselves. Graeme Aldridge is a top #9. How he's never had a test cap when people like Iain O'Brien and Shayne O'Connor have I'll never know. Gillespie at 10 and Jeets at 11

I'll tell you why and end your wondering. O'Connor was picked at a time when an injury plague hit new zealand, and he was one of the best bowlers at that time...

While Aldridge is a pretty ordinary NZ seamer, O Brien has some bounce and pace about him that seperates him from the norm, plus, he only played about 3 test matches.

Gillespie is a possible selection, though not over someone like James Franklin in my opinion. Your bowling attack has no genuine swing bowler.

Patel is probably about the least controversial bowling selection you've made, so while I prefer Vettori, i'll let that one go.

 

[Flem274*]

You've dug deep for this one. I only vaguely remember saying anything on it.

You've forgotten Papps, someone who averaged about 91 last FC season OPENING! Won best domestic batter at this years NZ cricket awards. How for mine is a great talent, far better than Redmond who looks and plays like a domestic batsman, not an international player in my mind. I haven't seen much of Ingram play, so no comment there...

Yeah id rather play Fulton, whos only 27 or so isn't he? Otherwise Greg Hay, Rob Nicol, rather than this Hiini guy. Hiini has only been around for a season or so, don't peg your hopes on him.

What happened to McCullum? The guy is only 25! He could play for 10 years more! Looking eleven or twelve years into the future of NZ cricket is WAY too far! There could easily be a young hotshot by that time etc.



I'll tell you why and end your wondering. O'Connor was picked at a time when an injury plague hit new zealand, and he was one of the best bowlers at that time...

While Aldridge is a pretty ordinary NZ seamer, O Brien has some bounce and pace about him that seperates him from the norm, plus, he only played about 3 test matches.

Gillespie is a possible selection, though not over someone like James Franklin in my opinion. Your bowling attack has no genuine swing bowler.

Patel is probably about the least controversial bowling selection you've made, so while I prefer Vettori, i'll let that one go.

I think he was picking a team of players that werent in the first choice eleven mate.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

I think he was picking a team of players that werent in the first choice eleven mate.

Yep. Exactly right. My team was picked from players under 30 years old who haven't played more than a couple of tests (I think Jeets has one or two test caps in that team). Therefore neither Papps or How (5 tests), McCullum (plenty of tests), Franklin or Vettori were eligible for my team.

If you thought that the team I listed was my preferred 'First XI' I'm not surprised you think I'm a little bit soft in the head.

 

[The Big Cheese]

Yep. Exactly right. My team was picked from players under 30 years old who haven't played more than a couple of tests (I think Jeets has one or two test caps in that team). Therefore neither Papps or How (5 tests), McCullum (plenty of tests), Franklin or Vettori were eligible for my team.

If you thought that the team I listed was my preferred 'First XI' I'm not surprised you think I'm a little bit soft in the head.

Ah! My mistake!

 

[Kweek]

good place to ask this question I think...
Why was Englefield never given a chance after 3 good seasons in a row?
I mean he had a poor start of his FC career..but still.

 

[Flem274*]

good place to ask this question I think...
Why was Englefield never given a chance after 3 good seasons in a row?
I mean he had a poor start of his FC career..but still.

It's a kiwism, Sinclair, Papps and others are/have been in the same situation.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

I found a good interview with the coach of New Zealand A earlier today. If someone can let me know the forum etiquette on posting links to other cricket sites, I can post it here.

 

[Fiery]

I found a good interview with the coach of New Zealand A earlier today. If someone can let me know the forum etiquette on posting links to other cricket sites, I can post it here.

No problem with doing that afaik...people are always linking to Cricinfo so assume it's not an issue

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

http://www.************.net/content/view/95/28/

Its a pretty long interview actually, and he seems to be keeping his ideas for the A team pretty much under his hat. I guess he doesn't want to upset any of the players at this early stage. He does give Kruger van Wyk a decent amount of backing, unsurprisingly I guess.

EDIT: Ha! Looks as if the site in question is a censored link! Don't know why though, I can't see any forums there if that's why its censored? Ah well, don't worry, eh.

 

[Will Scarlet]

I'm quite happy with the opening options for NZ, based on the form of batsmen in the last FC season.

Papps is the most probable candidate as he has had consistent form over many seasons - especially this year.
Cumming has shown reasonable form in both FC and limited overs matches and was reasonable in the last test series played.
Ingram had strong FC and limited overs form but is inconsistent: he either scores a century or nothing.

The problem is whether the selectors make the required changes to the squad. It would be a tragedy if the next test squad was selected based on ODIs and 20/20 form rather than FC form.

There are many middle order options with Fleming, Taylor, Fulton, Broom, Sinclair, and Styris in consideration. Oram has shown nothing to justify test selection at this stage. And Ryder should not even be considered at this stage.

When does NZC decide on the coaching position?

 

[Flem274*]

http://www.************.net/content/view/95/28/

Its a pretty long interview actually, and he seems to be keeping his ideas for the A team pretty much under his hat. I guess he doesn't want to upset any of the players at this early stage. He does give Kruger van Wyk a decent amount of backing, unsurprisingly I guess.

EDIT: Ha! Looks as if the site in question is a censored link! Don't know why though, I can't see any forums there if that's why its censored? Ah well, don't worry, eh.

So we stolen a saffie huh, England won't be pleased.

I hear we have a Zimbabwean with alot of potential too. Colin De Gronholme (spelling?)

So whos in the A team? I'd include;

Houpapa
Southee
Bennet
Hay
Gronholme
Broom
Nicol

Any chance we could give some of the under 19's a tour? just a couple of games at a higher level wouldn't hurt. Give Watling, Williamson and Anderson a go IMO.

 

[Flem274*]

I'm quite happy with the opening options for NZ, based on the form of batsmen in the last FC season.

Papps is the most probable candidate as he has had consistent form over many seasons - especially this year.
Cumming has shown reasonable form in both FC and limited overs matches and was reasonable in the last test series played.
Ingram had strong FC and limited overs form but is inconsistent: he either scores a century or nothing.

The problem is whether the selectors make the required changes to the squad. It would be a tragedy if the next test squad was selected based on ODIs and 20/20 form rather than FC form.

There are many middle order options with Fleming, Taylor, Fulton, Broom, Sinclair, and Styris in consideration. Oram has shown nothing to justify test selection at this stage. And Ryder should not even be considered at this stage.

When does NZC decide on the coaching position?

Oram has a good batting average IIRC in tests. Aint it nice to have an area with some depth for a change?

Talor is not ready yet IMO. You could add Nicol to that list. Someone raised the idea of Vincent on hard pitches and Styris on slow ones. Not a bad idea that. I'd go with;

3.Fleming
4.Vincent/Styris (if Vincent isn't needed opening)
5.Fulton

If Oram is used down the order more or not at all then

3.Fleming
4.Vincent
5. Fulton
6. Styris

Though Sinclair really deserves a go. IMO it doesn't matter what we do with the middle order, any one of those players you mentioned could succeed.

 

[Will Scarlet]

Oram has a good batting average IIRC in tests. Aint it nice to have an area with some depth for a change?

Talor is not ready yet IMO. You could add Nicol to that list. Someone raised the idea of Vincent on hard pitches and Styris on slow ones. Not a bad idea that. I'd go with;

3.Fleming
4.Vincent/Styris (if Vincent isn't needed opening)
5.Fulton

If Oram is used down the order more or not at all then

3.Fleming
4.Vincent
5. Fulton
6. Styris

Though Sinclair really deserves a go. IMO it doesn't matter what we do with the middle order, any one of those players you mentioned could succeed.

Yes, Nicol and Vincent deserve to be in my list.

Oram has a good test record but has had no consistent batting form in any cricket in the last few years. The few scores in the ODIs in AUS were the minor exception.

Fulton and Sinclair both should be batting at #3 or #4 ahead of Styris or Vincent.

 

[Fiery]

Taylor will be in the next test team I reckon