Hayden vs Hussain

[Richard]

mmm.just one of those lucky players I guess

Where does Hussain stand next to Yousuf in your funny little world? Better, worse?

Yousuf hadn't been especially lucky until the Lahore Test of 2005\06. The fact that luck due to persistent dropped catches is something you cannot comprehend does not change this.

 

[Richard]

The guy averaged nearly 100 in the year ffs. Give him some credit Richard. Alright he might have had let offs but even you must realise that he played some absolutely superb innings.

Most of which wouldn't have been played but for the let-offs.

 

[Swervy]

Yousuf was nothing but a flat-track bully until the end of 2005, near enough everyone acknowledged that.

While he's been better in the last 12 months, to deny he's had a massive amount of luck would be to display a dismal ignorance of the game.

I love the insults, simplistic minded, dismal ignorance of the game.

Flat track bully until the end of 2005, and then all of a sudden he got better but lucky.

The guy will never get credit from you, neither will Hayden...but Mark Ealham, now thats a different matter

 

[Richard]

Yes, a flat track bully does this and this.

Being a flat-track bully does not mean you are completely incapable of scoring in adverse conditions.

 

[Richard]

"Richardson was a flat-track bully"

Yeah, yeah - I'm talking down a Kiwi player, how dare I?

 

[Swervy]

Judging players purely by who has the highest career average is simplistic, extremely so.

Plenty often enough, the higher career-average player will be the better one, but to simply assume such a thing is crazy.

but when an average is almost 20 more, then there is an overwheming hint that the one with the higher average might be the better player

 

[Swervy]

Most of which wouldn't have been played but for the let-offs.

care to provide evidence that Yousuf has had the benefit of 'luck' compared to other batsmen around the world.

Could it be again a preception that he has had loads more dropped catches off him, when possibly the reality is that he may have had slightly more 'luck' than normal

 

[Richard]

I love the insults, simplistic minded, dismal ignorance of the game.

Flat track bully until the end of 2005, and then all of a sudden he got better but lucky.

The guy will never get credit from you, neither will Hayden...but Mark Ealham, now thats a different matter

That's bull****, he has plenty of credit from me. It's very obvious that you think I'm making-up the "he was lucky" because his scores have increased, and you could not be more wrong.

You can take blasts at me for insults, but that last line is a demonstration of simplistic thinking. You do not understand my thinking-process when judging the game of cricket... yet you think you do.

 

[Richard]

but when an average is almost 20 more, then there is an overwheming hint that the one with the higher average might be the better player

No, there isn't. Because some players are very good at one thing and very poor at another.

 

[Swervy]

I wish I could edit the title of the thread to include Yousuf and Richardson and the concept of flat track bullies, and lucky batsmen etc.

 

[Richard]

care to provide evidence that Yousuf has had the benefit of 'luck' compared to other batsmen around the world.

Could it be again a preception that he has had loads more dropped catches off him, when possibly the reality is that he may have had slightly more 'luck' than normal

No, it couldn't. And I would, but I get the feeling that this thread might just be moving a bit too fast for that... I will quite happily do so in a quieter time.

 

[Richard]

I wish I could edit the title of the thread to include Yousuf and Richardson and the concept of flat track bullies, and lucky batsmen etc.

It really doesn't matter. I've done all things to death before.

 

[Fiery]

Yeah, yeah - I'm talking down a Kiwi player, how dare I?

I don't care if you talk him down in the least bit, just find it amusing that you consider one of the biggest stone-wallers who limited himself to a total of 3 scoring shots and a strike-rate of 37 in tests as a flat-track bully. Here was me thinking you knew a bit about cricket.

 

[Swervy]

That's bull****, he has plenty of credit from me. It's very obvious that you think I'm making-up the "he was lucky" because his scores have increased, and you could not be more wrong.

You can take blasts at me for insults, but that last line is a demonstration of simplistic thinking. You do not understand my thinking-process when judging the game of cricket... yet you think you do.

Would you show me where you have given Yousuf credit?

I am asking you to back up what you say. I accept he may well have been dropped, but he also still has gone on to score big after chances, again, its just cricket. .Back it up with some figures and I will say fair do's.

I dont see that me not understanding your thought processes is really a thing I would consider a negative on my part.

 

[Swervy]

No, it couldn't. And I would, but I get the feeling that this thread might just be moving a bit too fast for that... I will quite happily do so in a quieter time.

huge cop out

 

[Smudge]

Voltman, how do you know these pitches were flat?.

Because I watched the games.

On TV.

When they happened.

Live.

Not off a scorecard.

Fiery's right - Richardson only had three shots, and it's not an insult for him to be called a flat-track bully, rather that it's humorous to hear one of the most boring NZ batsmen in recent years to be described as such.

 

[Richard]

I don't care if you talk him down in the least bit, just find it amusing that you consider one of the biggest stone-wallers who limited himself to a total of 3 scoring shots and a strike-rate of 37 in tests as a flat-track bully. Here was me thinking you knew a bit about cricket.

Who cares whether he was a stonewaller or how fast he scored?

It'd take a dismal lack of knowledge of cricket to suggest someone like that could not be a flat-track bully. All that takes is cashing-in big on flat pitches while doing not-much of note on bowler-friendly ones.

 

[Richard]

Would you show me where you have given Yousuf credit?

I've said many times he's an excellent player. I'm not going to search through every single one of my posts and find something, you do that if you don't believe I ever have. I have, nonetheless, stated he's not the player many make him out to be - and still isn't, despite the recent spree of rungetting.

I am asking you to back up what you say. I accept he may well have been dropped, but he also still has gone on to score big after chances, again, its just cricket. .Back it up with some figures and I will say fair do's.

I dont see that me not understanding your thought processes is really a thing I would consider a negative on my part.

Your lack of understanding simply puts the thought into your head "ah, he's said X about Mr B player, now Mr B player has proven him wrong, so he looks for something else bad to say about Mr B player".

And that is totally, completely, woefully, wrong.

 

[Richard]

huge cop out

No, it's not. I don't have the will to go and do some 20-minute research then find 50 posts to reply to in the meantime.

Anyway, here it is... this is the list of what went in the book. Now here's the list of the luck
223 - dropped on 16
173 - dropped on 90
126 - 2 drops, can't find the scores anywhere
202 - certainly dropped at some point, but something's telling me it was on 190-something, so that can still be described as a fairly decent knock (please note the heavy understatement there)
192 - dropped on 5
128 - dropped on 5 & 9
192 - dropped on 43 & 101
56 - dropped at some point, can't find the scores
191 - 4 let-offs, can't find the scores
102 - dropped on 63
124 - dropped on 68, 87 and 109

Mohammad Yousuf undoubtedly played some good innings.in the 12 months in question... but he was also exceptionally fortunate on plenty and plenty of occasions.

Now, I actually say the exact same thing about Kevin Pietersen between The Oval 2005 and Old Trafford 2006... but Pietersen is a player I like greatly and have praised often (and I presume you haven't missed that). I also say it about any number of other players who I like and rate very highly - Brian Lara has had quite a few innings where he's been dropped early on and hasn't deserved the runs he's got, but he's still played countless fantastic innings besides.

You must realise that I do not have a thing against Mohammad Yousuf, but merely against people who do not recognise the amount of luck he recieved in this short period. Which WAS inordinate.

 

[Richard]

Because I watched the games.

On TV.

When they happened.

Live.

Not off a scorecard.

Fiery's right - Richardson only had three shots, and it's not an insult for him to be called a flat-track bully, rather that it's humorous to hear one of the most boring NZ batsmen in recent years to be described as such.

It may have escaped your notice, but you can't watch off a scorecard.

It has also evidently escaped your notice that three-stroke, boring, blah-blah-ils, batsman is not exempt from being a flat-track bully.