Official NBA 2006-2007 season thread

[Sanz]

If Nellie, as the GM, had all the powers in player selection and MarK Cuban merely was writtng checks then why did he (Cuban) not sign Nash ?

 

[Sanz]

History has proven that Nellie-ball doesn't work. Nellie-ball will win a playoff round here and there, but has never (and will never) win a Championship.

Can you name 3 most successful coaches in NBA history ?
Can you name top 10 coaches in NBA History ?

 

[Fusion]

If Nellie, as the GM, had all the powers in player selection and MarK Cuban merely was writtng checks then why did he (Cuban) not sign Nash ?

I've already said that by that time their relationship had gone sour. As recently as the year before Nash left, it was Nellie who brought in Antoine Jamison and Antoine Walker, two ill-fitting players who were given huge contracts by Cuban. Going back to Nash, why should Cuban have paid him the huge contract? How many rings did Nash win while playing for Dallas? How many MVP's? Can you tell me in all honestly that you could foresee Nash elevating his game to his current MVP levels way back then? And if you could, based on what evidence? So Cuban made a decision that a change of direction was needed. And guess what? It was the right decision for both parties. Nash never would've won those MVP's in Dallas. The Mavs actually went to the Finals without Nash.

Can you name 3 most successful coaches in NBA history ?
Can you name top 10 coaches in NBA History ?

Define successful. If you mean wins, then I'm well aware of Don Nelson's win tally. How many rings has he won as a coach? Forget rings, how many times has he taken his team to the Finals? In the end, a player or coach is defined by Championships, not number of wins. That's why Dan Marino is an all-time great QB, but NOT the best QB. That's why Barkley is not in the league of MJ and Bird, even though he's closely associated with them. Don Nelson has more wins than Pat Riley, Phil Jackson, and Jack Ramsay. But I'd take all of them over Nellie any day of the week.

 

[Sanz]

Define successful. If you mean wins, then I'm well aware of Don Nelson's win tally. How many rings has he won as a coach? Forget rings, how many times has he taken his team to the Finals? In the end, a player or coach is defined by Championships, not number of wins. That's why Dan Marino is an all-time great QB, but NOT the best QB. That's why Barkley is not in the league of MJ and Bird, even though he's closely associated with them. Don Nelson has more wins than Pat Riley, Phil Jackson, and Jack Ramsay. But I'd take all of them over Nellie any day of the week.

John Elway has two superbowl rings, Steve Young, Kur Warner, even Ben Roethlisberger all have one, but would you take any of them over Dan Marino ? Besides what's the difference between all time great and best quarterback ? Are you saying that Marino isn't one of the best QBs ever ? Brian Charles Lara doesn't have a World Cup, not many championships, not many test series wins for his country, so obviously he is a lesser plyer than the likes of Gilchrist, Mcgrath, Ponting etc. Sorry I dont believe that.

Barkley wasn't a better player than Bird/Jordan nor more complete player than them and that's why he is not in their league. But give me a Barkley over PFs like Mchale, Rodman Duncan, Nowitzki, Garnette etc. There is only one another PF who comes close to him and that is Karl Malone. Ironically he never won a championship either.

No coach can win rings with crap players as can be seen in LALA Land, Phil Jackson has not made beyond first round in two seasons despite having an All time great. Where is Pat Riley without his star players, out 0-4 ? And no a coach isn't only defined by how many championships he/she has won. Golden State were not into playoffs for 12 years, with almost the same team they were 34/48. This year not only they made play-offs, they created history by beating the 67-15 team. Only great coaches can do it.

 

[Sanz]

I've already said that by that time their relationship had gone sour. As recently as the year before Nash left, it was Nellie who brought in Antoine Jamison and Antoine Walker, two ill-fitting players who were given huge contracts by Cuban. Going back to Nash, why should Cuban have paid him the huge contract? How many rings did Nash win while playing for Dallas? How many MVP's? Can you tell me in all honestly that you could foresee Nash elevating his game to his current MVP levels way back then? And if you could, based on what evidence? So Cuban made a decision that a change of direction was needed. And guess what? It was the right decision for both parties. Nash never would've won those MVP's in Dallas. The Mavs actually went to the Finals without Nash. .

And without Nash, Mavs also lost to Golden State in the first round, dont forget that. Have you looked at Nash's no's in the post Dallas era, his PPG is pretty much same, it's the assists that have gone up, so obviously he wasn't really the weak link, infact he suffered because of the various weak links in Mavericks. And no I couldn't have foreseen his MVP like performance, Phoenix sun could though and that's why they offered him that kind of amount. And yeah Cuban couldn't offer him that kind of Money but he could offer similar money to a one dimensional player like Terry.

And I dont know how can say that Jamison was an ill-fit when he won the NBA 6th man of the year award during his stay with Dallas.

 

[Anil]

the pistons vs the bulls have been such a huge mismatch...i thought the pistons would win but was expecting the series to be more competitive than this...

as for golden state, they gave the jazz a run for their money in utah...

 

[Sanz]

Jazz are going to win the series. They are the better team.

 

[Anil]

Jazz are going to win the series. They are the better team.

they certainly have the defensive edge and that helped them win the first one but the warriors are still hot and that's why they ran it close....one thing going for the jazz is that they are definitely mentally tougher than the mavs(boozer has been outstanding in these playoffs so far) and sloan is too good and too experienced to be fazed by anything that nellie does...

 

[ohtani's jacket]

Cuban is a good owner.

You don't take a team from one of the worst franchises in league history to a perennial 50 plus wins a season team without having some clue about what you're doing.

Letting Nash go seems bad now, since he gave Nash up for a career bust in Dampier, but Nash has chronic back problems & you build a team around your big guy not a guard.

The problem Dallas has is the same problem many teams have had: finding that last piece in the championship puzzle. The same thing happened to Drexler's Trailblazers, Payton's Supersonics, Ewing's Knicks, Stockton & Malone's Jazz... What makes winning an NBA title so difficult is that teams that DO find the final piece usually win multiple titles, making that window of opportunity thinner and thinner.

Dallas still have some time -- Phoenix will likely break up, The Spurs are getting old and The Pistons have to slow down at some point -- but it's getting smaller and smaller.

 

[ohtani's jacket]

Phoenix really need to win this game -- otherwise it's 2005 all over again.

 

[Anil]

Phoenix really need to win this game -- otherwise it's 2005 all over again.

they did...pretty sure it's going to be a much tighter fight than '05...

 

[Johnners]

(H) Cavs take a 2-0 lead and are really playing well at the business end of the season. King James was fantastic, and his support has really stepped their game up another level

 

[Sanz]

Cuban is a good owner.

You don't take a team from one of the worst franchises in league history to a perennial 50 plus wins a season team without having some clue about what you're doing.

Ofcourse he is a good owner, but if we give him credit for Mavs rise then It is fair that he gets his share of blames for its failures.

Letting Nash go seems bad now, since he gave Nash up for a career bust in Dampier, but Nash has chronic back problems & you build a team around your big guy not a guard.

??? Magic Johnson, Oscar Robertson, Isiah Thomas, John Stockton, Gary Payton etc. played same position and needless to say they were very successful. You build your franchise around your best player regardless of what position he plays. As for Nash's back problems, It is overblown.

The problem Dallas has is the same problem many teams have had: finding that last piece in the championship puzzle. The same thing happened to Drexler's Trailblazers, Payton's Supersonics, Ewing's Knicks, Stockton & Malone's Jazz... What makes winning an NBA title so difficult is that teams that DO find the final piece usually win multiple titles, making that window of opportunity thinner and thinner.

Sonics, Jazz, Knicks etc were unfortunate that they ran into JORDAN's Bulls.

Dallas still have some time -- Phoenix will likely break up, The Spurs are getting old and The Pistons have to slow down at some point -- but it's getting smaller and smaller.

And none of that will happen to Mavericks ?

 

[Fusion]

Ofcourse he is a good owner, but if we give him credit for Mavs rise then It is fair that he gets his share of blames for its failures.

Cuban is probably the most hated owner in the NBA. He gets his share of blame all the time. To blame this season's loss on him doesn't make sense to me. We both obviously have a very different view of what a "good" owner is and how much credit/blame should be given to Cuban. All I'll say is that I would hate it if Cuban ever sold the Mavs and I hope he owns them for the rest of his life.

??? Magic Johnson, Oscar Robertson, Isiah Thomas, John Stockton, Gary Payton etc. played same position and needless to say they were very successful. You build your franchise around your best player regardless of what position he plays. As for Nash's back problems, It is overblown.

When Nash left, he was not the best player on Dallas' roster. That was Dirk. Cuban decided to build around Dirk.

 

[Sanz]

Cuban is probably the most hated owner in the NBA. He gets his share of blame all the time. To blame this season's loss on him doesn't make sense to me. We both obviously have a very different view of what a "good" owner is and how much credit/blame should be given to Cuban. All I'll say is that I would hate it if Cuban ever sold the Mavs and I hope he owns them for the rest of his life..

I dont care If Cuban is the most hated owner in the NBA or in sports franchise business. I can speak for myself and I dont hate him and neither are my opinions based on how many people hate him. It doesn't matter to me if he decides to sell/Keep Mavs or buy Cubs/Penguines. It is a business and he will do what is best for him, I dont have any emotional to any sports Franchise ownership.

That said I do dislike a lot of his ways and the way he interferes in his teams business, the way he goes after his former employees (e.g. Nash, Nellie, Finley), the way he jumps after every news story that offers slightest bit of criticism about him/his players/his franchise etc. I am a regular reader of his Blog (blogmaverick) and I remember one time he went after a sport Journalist for writting that Cuban made a mistake in trading Nash and claiming that he had refused an offer for Shaq - (http://www.blogmaverick.com/2005/05/03/1-point-for-sports-media/) .

When Nash left, he was not the best player on Dallas' roster. That was Dirk. Cuban decided to build around Dirk.

IMO Dirk wasn't better than Nash. At best they were equal pieces of the offense.

 

[Sanz]

Davis misses a crucial FT and we go to overtime. Utah wins from here.

 

[Right arm fast]

Utah and Golden State go to Overtime after a Deron Williams 2. Baron Davis had a chance to win but missed a 3 with 2 ticks on the clock

 

[sideshowtim]

Sad to see Golden State go down, but Utah have their match in pretty much every aspect.

 

[Anil]

utah go up 2-0....they are really dominating on the boards although turnovers really hurt them in this game...

 

[ohtani's jacket]

Ofcourse he is a good owner, but if we give him credit for Mavs rise then It is fair that he gets his share of blames for its failures.

I guess so, but I don't think Cuban has done anything in terms of personnel moves that's resulted in failure.

??? Magic Johnson, Oscar Robertson, Isiah Thomas, John Stockton, Gary Payton etc. played same position and needless to say they were very successful. You build your franchise around your best player regardless of what position he plays. As for Nash's back problems, It is overblown.

Magic was drafted to a team that had Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. Oscar Robertson didn't win a title until he played with Kareem. Thomas had Bill Laimbeer, Dennis Rodman, John Salley and Rick Mahorn. Stockton never won a title. Payton went to the Finals once in his prime.

In the post Jordan era plenty of teams have tried to build around a guard, but the teams that have won had a strong inside presence -- Duncan and Robinson, Shaq, the Wallaces. Dirk can't play inside & so he needs help, but the Mavs built around Nash would be something like the Golden State Warriors. (Maybe.)

Sonics, Jazz, Knicks etc were unfortunate that they ran into JORDAN's Bulls.

They had two years when Jordan was off covering up his gambling addiction, but Hakeem's Rockets won back-to-back titles. The other teams were all missing a piece of the championship puzzle.

And none of that will happen to Mavericks ?

The Mavs have a few more years of being good. Either they'll break through and win a few titles like the late 80s Pistons or they'll be another very good team that couldn't win a title.