Stephen Harmison or Dominic Cork?

[Richard]

Let's say Harmison's Test career were to finish now (though we all know that it's likely he'll continue to get even more hopeless in the likely event that it doesn't), who'd y'all rate the bowler who had a better Test career?

Was it 7-match-in-early-2004-plus-the-odd-other-one-here-and-there-and-absolutely-sod-all-else Harmison or magnificent-in-his-first-11-games-and-just-7-other-good-'uns-out-of-26 Cork?

For me, Cork was always massively the more talented bowler and was only stopped from becoming one of England's best ever Test bowlers by his personal problems in the middle of 1996, and by relatively poor selection thereafter (most notably that winter and in the summer of 2002).

But in early 2004, if I'd placed this poll, it'd not have taken rocket-science to work-out who'd win... and I want to see if that's still the case.

 

[Flem274*]

My vote was influenced by Harmison's bullying of us in 2004. So in revenge I voted Cork.

 

[Richard]

You were just lucky Cork's mind wasn't in a fit state to do the same to you in 1996\97, and that he wasn't picked in 1999 (Alan Mullally, Edward Giddins and two spinners preferred ) because of a bad overseas tour.

Otherwise you'd have been for it!

 

[Flem274*]

You were just lucky Cork's mind wasn't in a fit state to do the same to you in 1996\97, and that he wasn't picked in 1999 (Alan Mullally, Edward Giddins and two spinners preferred ) because of a bad overseas tour.

Otherwise you'd have been for it!

I'm too young to remember 1999. Though I've read they made some wierd selections. That was when we beat you wasn't it? Thank god for Chris Cairns and Dion Nash in that series.

Haha, I read in Flem's book that when he first took over the captaincy Atherton gave him field placement tips while batting in that 1996/97 tour.

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

I voted Corky because he's always gun for me in ICC. No other reason, really.

 

[Richard]

I'm too young to remember 1999. Though I've read they made some wierd selections. That was when we beat you wasn't it? Thank god for Chris Cairns and Dion Nash in that series.

Haha, I read in Flem's book that when he first took over the captaincy Atherton gave him field placement tips while batting in that 1996/97 tour.

He probably did, sounds like Ath.

Yeah, 1999 was one of those great debacles of English cricket (though not as bad as some have made it out to be - NZ were a better side than most realised at the time or have come to with hindsight) and it reached the pinnacle of absurdity when there were 3 of the most hopeless batsmen you could wish to see a Test after another hopeless batsman had received a rapturous round of applause for a 69-minute duck.

Why on Earth Cork wasn't selected that summer simply beggars belief beyond almost anything else.

 

[Richard]

I voted Corky because he's always gun for me in ICC. No other reason, really.

He's just a gun full-stop, TBH.

 

[Flem274*]

He probably did, sounds like Ath.

Yeah, 1999 was one of those great debacles of English cricket (though not as bad as some have made it out to be - NZ were a better side than most realised at the time or have come to with hindsight) and it reached the pinnacle of absurdity when there were 3 of the most hopeless batsmen you could wish to see a Test after another hopeless batsman had received a rapturous round of applause for a 69-minute duck.

Why on Earth Cork wasn't selected that summer simply beggars belief beyond almost anything else.

It interests me that England repeated Glen Turner's mistake and selected two wicketkeepers in the starting 11.

69 minute duck? That sounds like Chris Martin. Actualy I think one of our players holds the record for longest test duck. Anyways Cork should definitely have been there, though I'm not complaining that he wasn't.

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

He's just a gun full-stop, TBH.

Debatable itbt.

 

[Richard]

It interests me that England repeated Glen Turner's mistake and selected two wicketkeepers in the starting 11.

Stewart being picked as a specialist opener was stupid, and as a specialist number-three even more so.

Matthew Engel put it best when he borrowed Sydney Pardon's phase and said it "England had one - and only one - advantage over the other Test-playing teams in the late 1990s - possession of a World-class batsman who could nonetheless keep at least as well as anyone else available. It touched the confines of lunacy to toss this away".

Read should never, ever have been picked in 1999.

69 minute duck? That sounds like Chris Martin. Actualy I think one of our players holds the record for longest test duck.

Yeah, it was Peter Such in the Old Trafford Test who came very close to beating the record of Geoff Allott (who had actually been dropped for Chris Harris for that game). Didn't quite make it though, and UIMM Allott's record still stands at the time of this post.

 

[BoyBrumby]

I think it depends which Dom Cork & which Harmy we're referring too. If both were at their absolute bests I'd have to go for Harmy, but Cork was more likely to be able to bowl at something approaching his best.

IMHO Corky got carried away & seemed to be striving to be a genuine quick; he was a very decent fast/medium swing bowler but for a period seemed to get it into his head that he had to try to blast batsmen out.

On balance I'm voting for Cork on the grounds that he was also a genuine test 8, the value of which is underrated at times.

 

[Richard]

I think it depends which Dom Cork & which Harmy we're referring too. If both were at their absolute bests I'd have to go for Harmy, but Cork was more likely to be able to bowl at something approaching his best.

The thing is, Harmison's "best" for me is not far short of a figure of imagination. He bowled well in those first 7 Tests in 2004, undoubtedly, but his figures massively flattered him. Nor was it ever anything which was remotely likely to last. With Cork, you (or, at least, I) always had the feeling that it would.

IMHO Corky got carried away & seemed to be striving to be a genuine quick; he was a very decent fast/medium swing bowler but for a period seemed to get it into his head that he had to try to blast batsmen out.

Yes, that didn't help, but nor did his problems in 1996.

On balance I'm voting for Cork on the grounds that he was also a genuine test 8, the value of which is underrated at times.

Though I'd vote for him as a specialist-bowler, easily.

 

[steds]

Corky.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Cork I guess. Not a big Harmison fan.

 

[Spitfires_Fan]

I went for Cork, for various reasons:

1) He was playing in a less successful side
2) He's less fragile than Harmison - I don't recall homesickness being an issue?
3) He plays the game with far more spirit and enthusiasm (I remember him knocking a bail off while batting and no one noticing, so he bent down, put it back on and carried on with his innings - vs West Indies perhaps?!)
4) He was a genuine test 8, as BoyBrumby said, unlike Slogger Harmison.

I saw him playing for Lancs vs Kent last season and he's still the same as ever - an energetic, enthusiastic livewire who loves a bit of banter with the crowd.

 

[vic_orthdox]

I'm voting for Cork. One of the reasons is alluded to by Smith. The other because he had a bit of Darren Gough about him in his attitude, and even when he wasn't bowling well, he'd act as though he would, and always wanted the ball. Can't say the same of Steven.

 

[Richard]

I went for Cork, for various reasons:

1) He was playing in a less successful side
2) He's less fragile than Harmison - I don't recall homesickness being an issue?
3) He plays the game with far more spirit and enthusiasm (I remember him knocking a bail off while batting and no one noticing, so he bent down, put it back on and carried on with his innings - vs West Indies perhaps?!)
4) He was a genuine test 8, as BoyBrumby said, unlike Slogger Harmison.

I saw him playing for Lancs vs Kent last season and he's still the same as ever - an energetic, enthusiastic livewire who loves a bit of banter with the crowd.

Haha, Cork actually did have a problem with homesickness in the winter of 1996\97, even actually missing one leg and being clearly not, shall we say, *with it* in the other leg (and it would have been so, so much better in hindsight if he'd not been picked). He had a pretty decent excuse, though - he was going through a marital break-up at the time.

And yes, that famous bail incident was against West Indies.

 

[Richard]

Disappointed Fuller and Macca haven't actually voted, TBH. And that Kev, PB, PC and M79 haven't given their reasons.

 

[Dasa]

I voted Corky because he's always gun for me in ICC. No other reason, really.

Same reason here.

 

[Spitfires_Fan]

Haha, Cork actually did have a problem with homesickness in the winter of 1996\97, even actually missing one leg and being clearly not, shall we say, *with it* in the other leg (and it would have been so, so much better in hindsight if he'd not been picked). He had a pretty decent excuse, though - he was going through a marital break-up at the time.

Ahh, right, my apologies! I would only have been 11 at the time - I remember him having problems during his career, and now you mention marital problems that does ring a bell. But as you say, it's a decent excuse, unlike Harmison, who to me has always come across as a bit of a big girl's blouse in a big bloke's body.