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Indian domestic season 2006-07

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
Let's look at some of the BCCI's statements and how they'll impact domestic cricket.
Zonal system of selection abolished. Only all-India selection committee."
Dumb. Absolutely dumb. India is a very large country, so if you wish to have the best team from India, need to look at all of India, not just Mumbai, TN, Delhi, Karnataka, Baroda and Punjab. Most of these so-called all-India selections are polarised to favour the power centres. Had it not been for a little exploration in the East, the Indians would have been stuck with Parthiv Patel in Tests and Rahul Dravid would have to keep in one-dayers, though hopeless, simply because Patel couldn't score enough runs. Some very useful players come from the Central teams, but are never given their due. This polarised selection committee may ignore them forever. All India means all India.
Ranji Elite league reduced to ten teams from 15
Dumber. Power to polarised selection, that's what this is. In the recent past, there has been intense competition in the Plate league, but that's been ignored by the selectors, who have chosen to sit through rather boring Elite matches. A lot of players in the current Indian team are well past their best. The selectors need to open options, not shut them. If they think the competition will increase if there are fewer Elite teams, they need to recognise competition at both levels. Moreover, the Duleep Trophy should be taken more seriously, as the teams in action truly have the best of all the players in the scene.

More coming soon. Lunchtime for me. Have to rush out after this. Watch the next post (I hate 24-hour edits).
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
From an outsider looking in without any real knowledge of the Indian domestic structure, both those things seem like good initiatives, actually.

Zonal systems imply zonal bias - the very fact that zonal systems existed meant that selectors might think it was their "duty" to push the cases for certain players. Scrapping it all and insisting that the selectors simply pick the best players available is a far better way of going about it IMO.

And the reduction of teams... well, any competition with 15 cricket teams is just too much IMO. Sure, it allows more cricketers to get a game, but it also depleats the overall quality of cricket. Spreading the talent over 10 teams instead of 15 will only improve the standard of cricket and make the players better, as far as I can see. Australia is an absolutely massive country which has dominated cricket for the last decade or so - and it has a total of SIX teams. That means that the standard of domestic cricket is so high that it's truly not that far away from international standard. I don't think the West Indies would win either the Pura Cup or the Ford Ranger Cup - and it seems to be working much better than say, England's domestic structure which has more teams than you can throw a stick at.
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
Prince_EWS said:
Zonal systems imply zonal bias - the very fact that zonal systems existed meant that selectors might think it was their "duty" to push the cases for certain players. Scrapping it all and insisting that the selectors simply pick the best players available is a far better way of going about it IMO.
Let's look at it this way. If you have a zonal system, you have zonal bias. If you have an all-India system, there is just as much a chance of that being manipulated to favour the power centres of the country. It doesn't matter- the zonal system was good enough and not far worse than the proposed replacement- but wither option should (have) been used properly. The zonal system has been thoroughly misused, as players are either just filling quotas or not making the team at all, coming from 'weak' zones. Ideally, they should retain the zonal structure, but post an outsider in each zone.
And the reduction of teams... well, any competition with 15 cricket teams is just too much IMO. Sure, it allows more cricketers to get a game, but it also depleats the overall quality of cricket. Spreading the talent over 10 teams instead of 15 will only improve the standard of cricket and make the players better, as far as I can see. Australia is an absolutely massive country which has dominated cricket for the last decade or so - and it has a total of SIX teams. That means that the standard of domestic cricket is so high that it's truly not that far away from international standard. I don't think the West Indies would win either the Pura Cup or the Ford Ranger Cup - and it seems to be working much better than say, England's domestic structure which has more teams than you can throw a stick at.
Frankly, that's not a good idea for a country as large as India. It's not doing the cricketing population of the country much good. There's this misconception that Elite teams play good cricket, while Plate teams don't, which is why the Plate matches are always ignored. Yet, Elite has produced several draws, while the Plate league has witnessed intense competition.

My suggestion would be to place the Duleep Trophy, where you have the best of each zone, forming five teams (and a sixth international invitee), as the premier FC tournament, not the Ranji Trophy. The latter should just be a production line for the Duleep. Furthermore, there should be more (preferably frontline) foreign players in Elite teams, which would be just right. As for England, they could use a major revamp in their domestic cricket structure. West Indies, talentwise, can even win a World Cup, but sometimes, there is no sense in some of what we see of their game.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Frankly, that's not a good idea for a country as large as India
Despite the fact that Australia is larger than India? Unless of course you mean population, in which case you have a fair point I suppose, although I still thinking less teams = better cricket, tbh.
 

adharcric

International Coach
Arjun said:
Let's look at it this way. If you have a zonal system, you have zonal bias. If you have an all-India system, there is just as much a chance of that being manipulated to favour the power centres of the country. It doesn't matter- the zonal system was good enough and not far worse than the proposed replacement- but wither option should (have) been used properly. The zonal system has been thoroughly misused, as players are either just filling quotas or not making the team at all, coming from 'weak' zones. Ideally, they should retain the zonal structure, but post an outsider in each zone.Frankly, that's not a good idea for a country as large as India. It's not doing the cricketing population of the country much good.
The new system of paid, all-India selectors has far less potential for biased, corrupt selections than the zonal system does. When you add the fact that coaches have complained abou the zonal system, it certainly looks like a good move.
Arjun said:
There's this misconception that Elite teams play good cricket, while Plate teams don't, which is why the Plate matches are always ignored. Yet, Elite has produced several draws, while the Plate league has witnessed intense competition.
Haha, wtf? How does that show that Plate League teams are as good as Elite League teams? That is most likely a result of pathetic pitches.
Arjun said:
My suggestion would be to place the Duleep Trophy, where you have the best of each zone, forming five teams (and a sixth international invitee), as the premier FC tournament, not the Ranji Trophy. The latter should just be a production line for the Duleep. Furthermore, there should be more (preferably frontline) foreign players in Elite teams, which would be just right. As for England, they could use a major revamp in their domestic cricket structure. West Indies, talentwise, can even win a World Cup, but sometimes, there is no sense in some of what we see of their game.
Agreed. The Duleep Trophy should be the centerpiece of domestic cricket in India.
 

adharcric

International Coach
I disagree. I think we should scrap the Duleep Trophy. It is unlikely that it will happen but that is how I see it.
I disagree. Provided that a ten-team Ranji Trophy provides intense competition, this may not seem like a bad idea. Fair enough, but the Duleep Trophy remains valuable even if the players don't bond as a zonal team as you indicate. Primarily, you are still pitting the best against the best - that will not be the case in the Ranji Trophy because some players are poor, others are old and they are still selected by their state selection committees. Having players not bond is far better than having to judge them on performances against mediocre opposition.

Since the national selectors are responsible for selecting the Duleep Trophy squads, this serves as the perfect opportunity to base their final decisions (of course, the Ranji season will play a large role as well). Furthermore, this is the greatest opportunity for Plate League prospects such as Abid Nabi, Shahbaz Nadeem, Abu Nechim Ahmed and potentially Cheteshwar Pujara and Ravindra Jadeja as well. Scrapping the Duleep Trophy would be a bad idea in my opinion.
 

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
I disagree. Provided that a ten-team Ranji Trophy provides intense competition, this may not seem like a bad idea. Fair enough, but the Duleep Trophy remains valuable even if the players don't bond as a zonal team as you indicate. Primarily, you are still pitting the best against the best - that will not be the case in the Ranji Trophy because some players are poor, others are old and they are still selected by their state selection committees. Having players not bond is far better than having to judge them on performances against mediocre opposition.

Since the national selectors are responsible for selecting the Duleep Trophy squads, this serves as the perfect opportunity to base their final decisions (of course, the Ranji season will play a large role as well). Furthermore, this is the greatest opportunity for Plate League prospects such as Abid Nabi, Shahbaz Nadeem, Abu Nechim Ahmed and potentially Cheteshwar Pujara and Ravindra Jadeja as well. Scrapping the Duleep Trophy would be a bad idea in my opinion.
There are two more aspects apart from the team bonding which tilt the balance for me.. handling match situations and handling pressure. If I, as a player, am only interested in scoring that 100 to get into the national team, like in zonal games, I will not care regarding how my team fairs. So while I have pressure to score a 100, I don't have the pressure of getting my team to 320 on the last day. So I do not experience match situations and thus find it difficult when I have to face them in the international level. We have seen Indians choke at the end (v Zimbabwe in 99 world cup for instance) and a lot of it has to do with how players haven't handled such situations a lot of times at the domestic level.

Points system also has to be structured for this properly though. If teams are encouraged to go for draws, even Ranji will not be competitive.

The point you raise regarding exposure to the likes of Abid Nabi is very valid. For this, it is vital we have just two divisions (10 teams each) and remove a few more teams (like Monga suggests and explains how to do it in his piece). A player can always change his team if he feels he is stuck in a poor team which can never go up (Even Gilchrist did it because the keeper position was occupied in his state and people switch teams all the time even now).

Another point you raise: 10 teams will mean competition is not as intense. If you want each division can go down to 7 or 8 teams (which would then mean 3 divisions). I am not a fan of too many tournaments or all star tournaments like the Duleep or Challenger. Even though it was an official test match and had superstars, you could see that Australia v Rest of the World could never match the intensity of Australia v England or even your normal test match which usually takes place. Not only that, players struggle regarding running between wickets, working as a team.

Regarding selection: if a player isn't selected for a Ranji side, obviously he wont be known till he goes to another Ranji side and I dont think who the selectors are is that important as state biases among national selectors can always be there also. Thank fully zonal selectors are being abolished and it will hopefully reduce the malaise associated with zonal selecting to a large extent. Moreover, if we have too many tournaments, stars will have to give less importance to one tournament or another. Two divisions, with 10 teams in each, would be pretty good according to me.
 
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adharcric

International Coach
Pratyush said:
There are two more aspects apart from the team bonding which tilt the balance for me.. handling match situations and handling pressure. If I, as a player, am only interested in scoring that 100 to get into the national team, like in zonal games, I will not care regarding how my team fairs. So while I have pressure to score a 100, I don't have the pressure of getting my team to 320 on the last day. So I do not experience match situations and thus find it difficult when I have to face them in the international level. We have seen Indians choke at the end (v Zimbabwe in 99 world cup for instance) and a lot of it has to do with how players haven't handled such situations a lot of times at the domestic level.
Players may not become better under pressure through playing these matches but they certainly won't become worse, right? The benefit of having the best go up against the best still outweights these things for me.
Pratyush said:
Points system also has to be structured for this properly though. If teams are encouraged to go for draws, even Ranji will not be competitive.
True. Several changes need to be made.
Pratyush said:
The point you raise regarding exposure to the likes of Abid Nabi is very valid. For this, it is vital we have just two divisions (10 teams each) and remove a few more teams (like Monga suggests and explains how to do it in his piece). A player can always change his team if he feels he is stuck in a poor team which can never go up (Even Gilchrist did it because the keeper position was occupied in his state and people switch teams all the time even now).
Players can switch states but you can't expect them to do so every year to ensure that they always end up in the Elite League. There will always be 5-10 national prospects in the Plate League and you cannot simply expect everyone to change states. As for only having two divisions, isn't that what we have right now?
Pratyush said:
Another point you raise: 10 teams will mean competition is not as intense. If you want each division can go down to 7 or 8 teams (which would then mean 3 divisions). I am not a fan of too many tournaments or all star tournaments like the Duleep or Challenger. Even though it was an official test match and had superstars, you could see that Australia v Rest of the World could never match the intensity of Australia v England or even your normal test match which usually takes place. Not only that, players struggle regarding running between wickets, working as a team.
These are all valid points but having an extended Duleep Trophy will ensure that these players actually practice as a team and don't just show up to boost their stats.
Pratyush said:
Regarding selection: if a player isn't selected for a Ranji side, obviously he wont be known till he goes to another Ranji side and I dont think who the selectors are is that important as state biases among national selectors can always be there also. Thank fully zonal selectors are being abolished and it will hopefully reduce the malaise associated with zonal selecting to a large extent. Moreover, if we have too many tournaments, stars will have to give less importance to one tournament or another. Two divisions, with 10 teams in each, would be pretty good according to me.
Your solution will actually work just fine if the Ranji Trophy is perfectly ideal. Right now, it is far from ideal. As for the players, they should play Duleep Trophy at the very least and Ranji Trophy as much as possible IMO.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
I am with Pratyush here. Only way Duleep will work is if they rewarded players who play for the team than the ones who play for themselves.
 

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
The benefit of having the best go up against the best still outweights these things for me.
We agree to disagree then on this.. :)

Players can switch states but you can't expect them to do so every year to ensure that they always end up in the Elite League. There will always be 5-10 national prospects in the Plate League and you cannot simply expect everyone to change states.
Top performers, even in poorer teams will be noticed of course. Then, they can be given chance in A teams.


As for only having two divisions, isn't that what we have right now?
Right now we have truckloads of teams which should be reduced like I said earlier.

These are all valid points but having an extended Duleep Trophy will ensure that these players actually practice as a team and don't just show up to boost their stats.
If you want an extended Duleep Trophy, you would have to scrap the Ranji. There is no room for both according to me

Your solution will actually work just fine if the Ranji Trophy is perfectly ideal. Right now, it is far from ideal. As for the players, they should play Duleep Trophy at the very least and Ranji Trophy as much as possible IMO.
Yeah we do not have an ideal system but we want to strive for an ideal setup. The changes I thought are so that we can pursue the ideal. The board showed some thinking towards this while proposing their own changes which is why I added more. Whether the BCCI is really intent on revamping domestic cricket or the changes they said to the media were just a one time eyewash to show they are intent on revamping domestic cricket, we do not know.
 
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Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
The domestic Twenty20 seems to have got more spectators in some amtches than a few World Cup encounters, but strangely, there was absolutely no live coverage, on CricInfo or NEO. That was disappointing, so I'm not too keen on posting anything from there.

Then again, Praveen Kumar from Uttar Pradesh had an impressive tournament, but UP were out in the league stage itself. Disappointing. The stat sheets are not too impressive, with odd contenders in the top run charts, and then you have Yusuf Pathan with a strike rate close to 200 with an average a shade over 20. Manoj Tiwari, however, seems a good pick. Among the bowlers, the top 10 list has some really odd contenders, with nearly eight coming from teams in and out of the Plate league.
 

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