New Zealand Black Caps Thread

[Richard]

If we win the toss against Ireland, New Zealand definitely needs to set the total. As they need to get used to the early morning conditions as the toss is not always going to fall our way, and we need Oram and McCullum to have a bat as they haven't had many chances in match situations in this world cup

That's a very risky attitude.

In a game where points are at stake, trying to use it as a practice match can come back to haunt you deeply.

Ricky Ponting found that against Bangladesh in Cardiff.

 

[KiWiNiNjA]

Bond vs SA
(6 ball overs) Mat O R W BB1 BB2 Ave Econ SR 4w 5w
v South Africa 11 94.2 484 14 4/37 2/42 34.57 5.13 40.4 1 0

Vettori
(6 ball overs) Mat O R W BB1 BB2 Ave Econ SR 4w 5w
South Africa 31 198.1 894 18 2/18 2/37 49.66 4.51 66.0 0 0

Vettori's test record
(6 ball overs) Mat O R W BB1 BB2 Ave Econ SR 4w 5w
v South Africa 9 367.3 1051 15 4/153 5/160 70.06 2.85 147.0 0 0

Both have played a lot of games against SA and the reading ain't flash :/

But......

[B]Oram vs RSA[/B]
(6 ball overs)       Mat    O       R   W   BB1    BB2     Ave  Econ    SR 4w 5w
filtered              11   68     302  13  3/24   3/26   23.23  4.44  31.3  0  0
[B]Patel vs RSA[/B]
(6 ball overs)       Mat    O       R   W   BB1    BB2     Ave  Econ    SR 4w 5w
filtered               2   11.1    59   5  3/11   2/48   11.80  5.28  13.4  0  0
[B]Styris in WI[/B]
(6 ball overs)       Mat    O       R   W   BB1    BB2     Ave  Econ    SR 4w 5w
filtered              10   56     244  15  6/25   4/43   16.26  4.35  22.4  1  1
[B]Bond in WI[/B]
(6 ball overs)       Mat    O       R   W   BB1    BB2     Ave  Econ    SR 4w 5w
filtered               8   61.4   227  10  3/31   2/15   22.70  3.68  37.0  0  0

 

[Dick Rockett]

I'm gonna play the stats game here to show current form

[B]NZ ODI Stats for 2007[/B] (career averages in parenthesis)
SP Fleming     596 runs @ [B]39.73[/B], S/R [B]78.62[/B]
                         [I](32.78)    (71.46)[/I] 
                         
RL Taylor      495 runs @ 35.35, S/R 79.45
                         [I]([B]40.23[/B])    ([B]83.31[/B])[/I] 

L Vincent      474 runs @ [B]52.66[/B], S/R [B]80.06[/B]
                         [I](28.27)    (70.05)[/I] 

CD McMillan    470 runs @ [B]42.72[/B], S/R [B]95.14[/B]
                         [I](28.34)    (75.96)[/I] 

PG Fulton      458 runs @ [B]35.23[/B], S/R [B]78.42[/B]
                         [I](33.73)    (76.12)[/I] 

JDP Oram       362 runs @ [B]90.50[/B], S/R [B]111.04[/B]
                         [I](23.17)    (80.99)[/I] 

BB McCullum    357 runs @ [B]35.70[/B], S/R [B]102.00[/B]
                         [I](23.53)    (82.09)[/I]

SB Styris      325 runs @ [B]54.16[/B], S/R [B]87.83[/B]
                         [I](30.70)    (78.85)[/I]

When have you taken these stats from, ninja?

 

[KiWiNiNjA]

When have you taken these stats from, ninja?

I assume you mean where?

2007 - Most Runs = here

and...

Current ODI Batting Averages = here

 

[Dick Rockett]

Well no. You said it was recent form, I wanted to know how you defined recent. Probably should have worded my question better.

 

[Prince EWS]

Well no. You said it was recent form, I wanted to know how you defined recent. Probably should have worded my question better.

He mentioned that in his original post though...

NZ ODI Stats for 2007 (career averages in parenthesis)

 

[Dick Rockett]

Jeez, dunno how I missed that. My bad

 

[KiWiNiNjA]

Jeez, dunno how I missed that. My bad

 

[Dasgupta]

It's time for Franklin to move ahead of Vettori in the batting order I think

 

[Perm]

It's time for Franklin to move ahead of Vettori in the batting order I think

Was thinking that not long ago, Franklin is the biggest hitter in the ODI side by quite a distance. However, if we were able to field a full strength XI then Franklin wouldn't make it.

 

[Prince EWS]

It's time for Franklin to move ahead of Vettori in the batting order I think

Well, that actually happened for a little while, but Franklin has been demoted again for some strange reason, despite doing well there. Personally I think it's time for Franklin to move below Shane Bond in the batting order - to twelfth man - and this is coming from someone who is a huge fan of the guy.

 

[Dasgupta]

Well, that actually happened for a little while, but Franklin has been demoted again for some strange reason, despite doing well there. Personally I think it's time for Franklin to move below Shane Bond in the batting order - to twelfth man - and this is coming from someone who is a huge fan of the guy.

Fair call. I would keep playing him however and hope the conditions favour his swing in the first few overs. If he gets belted then you can fall back on someone like McMillan to fill out the overs. His batting is valuable and much more effective than Vettori at the moment

 

[Perm]

Fair call. I would keep playing him however and hope the conditions favour his swing in the first few overs. If he gets belted then you can fall back on someone like McMillan to fill out the overs. His batting is valuable and much more effective than Vettori at the moment

So you would carry a bowler in your side when chances are, his effectiveness will be very low? Seem's a waste really, especially if you are including him on the basis of 10-15 more runs than Vettori and the rare good performance with the ball.

 

[Dasgupta]

So you would carry a bowler in your side when chances are, his effectiveness will be very low? Seem's a waste really, especially if you are including him on the basis of 10-15 more runs than Vettori and the rare good performance with the ball.

It's more a case of not having great faith in any of the other options probably. Playing either Gillespie, Martin or Mason would be risky at this stage I think and none offer much (or anything in Martin's case) with the bat

 

[Perm]

It's more a case of not having great faith in any of the other options probably. Playing either Gillespie, Martin or Mason would be risky at this stage I think and none offer much (or anything in Martin's case) with the bat

At the moment I would prefer to see Gillespie in the side, he get's it right on more occasions than Franklin and is certainly no mug with the bat. I'm a big fan of James Franklin, but he is seriously costing us runs.

 

[Dasgupta]

At the moment I would prefer to see Gillespie in the side, he get's it right on more occasions than Franklin and is certainly no mug with the bat. I'm a big fan of James Franklin, but he is seriously costing us runs.

He's also good for 20 or 30 quick ones himself with the bat which compensates for that. I think the time has come where he is finally considered as a batting allrounder by the selectors

 

[Perm]

He's also good for 20 or 30 quick ones himself with the bat which compensates for that. I think the time has come where he is finally considered as a batting allrounder by the selectors

A batting allrounder? You've got to be kidding me, he hasn't proved to be anything other than a bowler who can hit the ball in ODI's yet. We all know he has great potential as a Test and FC batsman, but hasn't really provided the consistency down the order than he needs to be considered a batting allrounder. He's only occasionally good for 20-30 quick runs too, not something than can be expected out of him every game.

 

[Dasgupta]

A batting allrounder? You've got to be kidding me, he hasn't proved to be anything other than a bowler who can hit the ball in ODI's yet. We all know he has great potential as a Test and FC batsman, but hasn't really provided the consistency down the order than he needs to be considered a batting allrounder. He's only occasionally good for 20-30 quick runs too, not something than can be expected out of him every game.

Not kidding you at all. He's hardly had a lot of opportunity to prove himself in ODI's, batting at 9 and he's done pretty well there recently. Batting allrounder imo and will be so in the future in both forms of the game

 

[Prince EWS]

He's also good for 20 or 30 quick ones himself with the bat which compensates for that. I think the time has come where he is finally considered as a batting allrounder by the selectors

If he's going to be considered a batting allrounder, then he should not be selected in the side to bat #8-9 and open the bowling. Styris and Oram are better options for a top 7 position (where those selected as batting allrounders bat..) so he should be dumped. As a batting allrounder in one day cricket, he shouldn't get near the national side. The same should be said for him as an opening bowler - or a first change bowler - or even a bowling allrounder too. Franklin's one of my favourite players and should be one of the first names put down for NZ's eleven, but he's simply not very good at one day cricket.

 

[Perm]

Not kidding you at all. He's hardly had a lot of opportunity to prove himself in ODI's, batting at 9 and he's done pretty well there recently. Batting allrounder imo and will be so in the future in both forms of the game

No way he'll ever be a batting allrounder in the immediate future, especially not in real cricket. I know he bats at around 5 or 6 for Wellington, but he isn't good enough to make it into the Black Caps ODI or Test side as a batting allrounder, especially when his bowling is obviously his main discipline.