Greg Chappell: I won't resign.

[sirdj]

What is this typical attitude? I certainly haven't seen a typical attitude on CW or anywhere else. What I have seen is a vast array of opinions and viewpoints that differ quite abit on the current situation. I haven't seen a so called 'typical' attitude at all really.

It seems you have missed all the furore in India asking for the resignation of Chappel, even the title of this thread is "Chappel: I won't resign". All this stems from the current view in India and amongst a lot of Indian that Chappel is to blame for the Indian performance in the world cup.
Posters in CW and the few sensible articles and blogs on the internet are exceptions and in the minority.
Vast majority of Indian cricket fans look at the last performance by the Indian team and forget all past records which is why we have all the donkeys being painted and the houses being stoned and effigies being burnt. I am not saying that all Indian fans behave in such a manner, but to have such a short memory is typical. How they ultimately react are just different shades on the same spectrum.

 

[adharcric]

It seems you have missed all the furore in India asking for the resignation of Chappel, even the title of this thread is "Chappel: I won't resign". All this stems from the current view in India and amongst a lot of Indian that Chappel is to blame for the Indian performance in the world cup.
Posters in CW and the few sensible articles and blogs on the internet are exceptions and in the minority.
Vast majority of Indian cricket fans look at the last performance by the Indian team and forget all past records which is why we have all the donkeys being painted and the houses being stoned and effigies being burnt. I am not saying that all Indian fans behave in such a manner, but to have such a short memory is typical. How they ultimately react are just different shades on the same spectrum.

Agreed.

 

[honestbharani]

HB, I'm not interested in debating whether the author's point is right or wrong. I'm just explaining why the article's concentrating on Chappell and not on the senior players.

thats cool. My point is that the article is not completely right.

 

[honestbharani]

I don't agree with it because it's just reinforcing the same tired old stereotypes that have been used to subjugate people for decades. There are cultural differences which I recognise, but it's irresponsible and foolish to simply paint the issue as "Indians can't handle him" - it's belittling and offensive, and Kesavan rightly pointed that out. Tbh, it's just as offensive to say that Australians are always forthright and "straight-talking" - another point that was quite prominent in the discussion surrounding this issue. Again, just stupid stereotypes. It's odd as well because Greg Chappell hasn't really been known for being a "straight talker" as far as I know...that's something I've heard about Ian Chappell rather than Greg....it's almost like some elements of the media turned straight to the stereotypes.

See, Dasa, what I said is from experience. The friendly works with Indians, from whatever I have seen, than the bossy approach. And people here don't like it when you tell them that they have done a bad job to their face. Heck, even I don't like it. There are ways to say that, especially when you have tried your best and was still not good enough. I see problems between our company staff who are onsite and the clients there for precisely this reason. More than once, the onsite seniors have complained to me on the phone about the "attitude" of the clients. And from my friends, I have come to know that it happens in their projects too. People are just different, I guess.


Let me put it this way... Indians won't handle the blunt truth as well as an Australian could, simply because of the psyche and the way people are brought up. Perhaps that is why there are differences of opinions between Indians and Aussies and the like on issues like sledging. I am not sure and I am not insisting that my theory is right. But these are just my observations based on what I have seen.

 

[shankar]

Let me put it this way... Indians won't handle the blunt truth as well as an Australian could, simply because of the psyche and the way people are brought up. Perhaps that is why there are differences of opinions between Indians and Aussies and the like on issues like sledging. I am not sure and I am not insisting that my theory is right. But these are just my observations based on what I have seen.

I said I wouldnt debate this. But this is what I think: I don't really believe the stereotype. But if there is any truth to it it might be an aversion to bluntness per se and not anything to do with handling the truth

 

[honestbharani]

I said I wouldnt debate this. But this is what I think: I don't really believe the stereotype. But if there is any truth to it it might be an aversion to bluntness per se and not anything to do with handling the truth

yep, that is what I was trying to put across as well. There are ways to say the truth... The blunt way or the sugar coated way and as far as I have seen, Indians respond better to the sugarcoated way than the blunt way.

 

[Sanz]

I don't understand how you can say he destroyed it. As I think I said in another thread he shouldn't get the praise if India did well and he shouldn't be blamed (that much) if India do poorly. I believe that with most coaches as a rule. Also, losing two matches in the WC isn't running a side into the ground. What if we had a similar system to 1999? Australia would have been out already when they lost 2 of the first 3 games. Could you accuse Geoff Marsh of destroying the team? No. India were unlucky, as were Pakistan that they had two bad performances that happened to be WC group games where there was no room for it. Saying anything else is an overreaction in my books.

I'm not saying Chappell was a good coach, but I am saying he didn't destroy India. You're, imo, projecting your dislike for Chappell as a coach onto the teams failures, unfairly.

My evaluation of Chappell is not on his win/loss ration or how India performed in the WC. I am sure some folks on CW can testify that.

I have been critical of Chappell from the time he handled the Ganguly issue and the way he handled it. He sure had good ideas e.g. 'Ganguly needed to a give up captaincy to regain his batting' but his approach was very detrimantal to the Team. He created rift between players, he instigated them against each other, he leaked things to media to get things done in his favor. That destroyed the 'Team' feeling among Indian players that was built by John Wright.

I dont blame Chappell much for India's poor performance, but I blame him most for how dysfunctional India became as a team under him. I hope you get my point.

 

[sirdj]

I have been critical of Chappell from the time he handled the Ganguly issue

Was it not Dalmia/Ganguly who leaked a secret email that Chappel sent to the BCCI to the media and thus created the issue in the first place? The Indian dressing room was not the paradise that you make it out to be before Chappel walked in. Senior players like Gavaskar had reported to the BCCI that idiots like Zaheer, Harbhajan and Ganguly swore at Wright in Hindi regularly. Considering the way Indians usually treat a guru or a coach(like Ramakant Achrekar etc) this is really shocking behavior. If these idiots swore at him then you can imagine how much respect he held in their view.

Chappel did not create the situation. He gave his suggestion to Ganguly, Ganguly went back to his 'gang', and that lead to Harbhajan making stupid statements to the press, then Dalmia leaks out Chappel's email. The reason why they did so was because Chappel insisted on certain clauses to his contract as he had a vague idea that he was taking up a position that could get very political. So Dalmia knew that if Chappel went ahead with the various clauses that he had asked for Ganguly would not survive, thus the need to play the issue in the court of the media. Chappel saw that they were playing dirty and played his cards accordingly. All this while he had the full support of former players.

He created rift between players

He did not create a rift between the players, the rift already existed. Ganguly had a gang, and they would support each other in team meeting and stuff. If you have the idea fixed in your head that the pre-Chappel Indian dressing room was perfect then I suppose there is very little one can say to change your views. All I can say is that you are letting personal feeling influence your views.

he instigated them against each other, he leaked things to media to get things done in his favor.

He did not, the gang already existed It was the Punjab/Delhi guys + Zaheer with Ganguly as their ring leader. Chappel felt that the rest of the team needed his support against such a setup.

That destroyed the 'Team' feeling among Indian players that was built by John Wright.

I doubt if there was any team feeling pre-Chappel, the captain had a group, the previous coach used to be sworn at. Tendulkar was sitting on his high horse not getting involved in any arguments or issues and getting his hands dirty. And the rest kept a lowish profile.

I dont blame Chappell much for India's poor performance, but I blame him most for how dysfunctional India became as a team under him. I hope you get my point.

How was the Indian team dysfunctional? Did they have a punch up? Was there a drunken brawl? Did any player turn up drunk for practice or a game? What abuse took place? You are purely speculating my friend unless you have a specific incident to talk about.

 

[Anil]

See, Dasa, what I said is from experience. The friendly works with Indians, from whatever I have seen, than the bossy approach. And people here don't like it when you tell them that they have done a bad job to their face. Heck, even I don't like it. There are ways to say that, especially when you have tried your best and was still not good enough. I see problems between our company staff who are onsite and the clients there for precisely this reason. More than once, the onsite seniors have complained to me on the phone about the "attitude" of the clients. And from my friends, I have come to know that it happens in their projects too. People are just different, I guess.


Let me put it this way... Indians won't handle the blunt truth as well as an Australian could, simply because of the psyche and the way people are brought up. Perhaps that is why there are differences of opinions between Indians and Aussies and the like on issues like sledging. I am not sure and I am not insisting that my theory is right. But these are just my observations based on what I have seen.

well, decades of sugarcoating the truth doesn't seem to have got the message across though, has it? or to put it another way, maybe they understood what was being said but felt safe ignoring it because of the "nice" way in which it was being said....by the way, do you think even the new generation of young indians can be stereotyped like that?

in any case, no messages have instilled any sense of professionalism or pride in winning in the indian international cricketer so far(of course there are isolated cases but i am talking about the general group), as dasa was suggesting maybe greg isn't the straight-talking one, maybe ian is, maybe greg has been a little sneaky in all this and has played a little politics, indian style, i sort of like what the result has been so far though...this chronic malaise is being widely discussed and some of it is being addressed and at least some corrective actions(at least what purports to be corrective actions) are being taken...

as for the factionalism in the team, i don't believe chappell had much to do with its creation, there were always divisions, ganguly had his own little coterie around him when he was captain, tendulkar had his favourites from mumbai, there were divisions during gavaskar's and kapil's tenures as well, i would say it is rooted more in inflated egos and insecure minds....

 

[honestbharani]

well, decades of sugarcoating the truth doesn't seem to have got the message across though, has it? or to put it another way, maybe they understood what was being said but felt safe ignoring it because of the "nice" way in which it was being said....by the way, do you think even the new generation of young indians can be stereotyped like that?

in any case, no messages have instilled any sense of professionalism or pride in winning in the indian international cricketer so far(of course there are isolated cases but i am talking about the general group), as dasa was suggesting maybe greg isn't the straight-talking one, maybe ian is, maybe greg has been a little sneaky in all this and has played a little politics, indian style, i sort of like what the result has been so far though...this chronic malaise is being widely discussed and some of it is being addressed and at least some corrective actions(at least what purports to be corrective actions) are being taken...

as for the factionalism in the team, i don't believe chappell had much to do with its creation, there were always divisions, ganguly had his own little coterie around him when he was captain, tendulkar had his favourites from mumbai, there were divisions during gavaskar's and kapil's tenures as well, i would say it is rooted more in inflated egos and insecure minds....

yeah, I suppose the up coming generation of cricketers can handle the blunt talking better than the previous ones..... But I agree with the rest of what you said. Greg was straight talking, I am pretty sure of that, but he also used other methods which were not very bright and wasn't good for the team either. For that reason, it is good that he isn't the senior team coach anymore. But as you said, there are other malaises in the side and they have been addressed partially but have at least been exposed this time.


But as I said in one of the other threads, there is many a slip between the cup and the lip and already BCCI are saying that they didn't say that seniors will be dropped for the BD tour.... Get ready to see the Dad's army in action again in Bangladesh.

 

[pasag]

My evaluation of Chappell is not on his win/loss ration or how India performed in the WC. I am sure some folks on CW can testify that.

I have been critical of Chappell from the time he handled the Ganguly issue and the way he handled it. He sure had good ideas e.g. 'Ganguly needed to a give up captaincy to regain his batting' but his approach was very detrimantal to the Team. He created rift between players, he instigated them against each other, he leaked things to media to get things done in his favor. That destroyed the 'Team' feeling among Indian players that was built by John Wright.

I dont blame Chappell much for India's poor performance, but I blame him most for how dysfunctional India became as a team under him. I hope you get my point.

Fair enough.