Lack of English Batting Talent

[Richard]

Usman Afzaal. - reminds me of an amazing game. Notts v Sussex. Notts at about 90/5 with Sussex bowling like gods. Afzaal at the crease with Chris Cairns. Afzaal could not get a run to get Cairns to the strikers end although managed to get a single of a last over and pinch the strike. 8 runs from 5 overs. Finally he got out and Chris Read came to the crease with about 12 overs left.. A few quick singles and they were up and running and smashed the bowling to pieces Read getting about 80 runs and Cairns 90. I have never rated Afzaal. Shah is miles better.

Afzaal's average was around 10 points higher than Shah's for most of his career.

To rate Shah the better player in the one-day arena is crazy - Shah has had umpteen chances in ODIs and has come-up short every.. single... time... from his 3rd game onwards.

Shah is certainly a better long-form player than Afzaal, yes, and Afzaal's inexplicably played Tests but not ODIs (and it was the other way around too for a long time).

Indeed, the Afzaal and Shah cases have little to do with one another, don't really know why you compared them, but they did have that impossibly annoying trait of both having been picked for completely the wrong form of the game - when you could reverse the picks and get it right.

 

[Richard]

No, not this season....the 2 before, perhaps

I was more pointing-out that you've produced 1 destructive batsmen who's currently "new" to the ODI scene.

Though what you say is interesting - Taylor's form in 2006\07 was not good?

 

[thierry henry]

I was more pointing-out that you've produced 1 destructive batsmen who's currently "new" to the ODI scene.

Though what you say is interesting - Taylor's form in 2006\07 was not good?

He didn't play any games, obviously! We're comparing domestic comp averages right?

 

[Richard]

Oh, right, didn't realise he hadn't played any games in 2006\07.

If not - yeah, previous 2 seasons only, then.

 

[thierry henry]

I'm interested in hearing what New Zealander's think about James Marshall being out on his own in terms of consistently excellent list a performances for the last 2 years.

Certainly seems strange then that H Marshall was picked TO REPLACE AN OPENER for this world cup.

Shades of the "they picked the wrong twin" headlines from 2000.

 

[Richard]

Hang on, hang on...

James Marshall is scoring some runs?



Has such a thing ever happened before?

 

[thierry henry]

Given that the 2006/07 season is now complete, I figured the "last 2 seasons" were 2005/06 and 2006/07.

But just for you Rich....Ross Taylor averaged 22 in 2004/05 So he doesn't even qualify for the 2 earlier seasons...

 

[thierry henry]

Hang on, hang on...

James Marshall is scoring some runs?



Has such a thing ever happened before?

Richard, you're not going to believe this, but....James Marshall averaged 41 in 2004/05.

Unfortunately, it seems they don't have strike rates recorded for 2004/05 at cricinfo, only for the last 2 seasons.

Nevertheless, it's quite possible that James Marshall fulfills Goughy's criteria for the past 3 seasons.

Like you, I must admit to being ignorant of this.

 

[Richard]

You're right, I'm not going to believe it. It simply must be some wicked conspiracy on the part of CricInfo to fool us gullible types into believing John Bracewell and cronies were in fact correct to pick James Marshall, and hence automatically his brother too, in every single game the both of them have played. In fact, they must be aiming for a Marshall in every New Zealand game - just to make themselves look clever because they can tell which one's been picked this time.

Dammit, I hate conspiracy theories...

 

[open365]

Usman Afzaal. - reminds me of an amazing game. Notts v Sussex. Notts at about 90/5 with Sussex bowling like gods. Afzaal at the crease with Chris Cairns. Afzaal could not get a run to get Cairns to the strikers end although managed to get a single of a last over and pinch the strike. 8 runs from 5 overs. Finally he got out and Chris Read came to the crease with about 12 overs left.. A few quick singles and they were up and running and smashed the bowling to pieces Read getting about 80 runs and Cairns 90. I have never rated Afzaal. Shah is miles better.

I remember that match, Read and Cairns produced imo one of if not thee greatest partnership in a run chase ever, when they came to the crease not even Nasser Hussain could bare to talk about their chances of winning, to bat like they did needing that many runs with no batsmen left was just immense.

 

[FBU]

I remember that match, Read and Cairns produced imo one of if not thee greatest partnership in a run chase ever, when they came to the crease not even Nasser Hussain could bare to talk about their chances of winning, to bat like they did needing that many runs with no batsmen left was just immense.

and then a couple of nights later another similar performance. People say Read can't bat but it just Fletcher's dislike of him that stops him playing how he can. I have watched him since 1999 and have seen a different Read to most people. That he is not picked for the MCC game means they are looking to go with Davies this summer, if not Nixon. At least Notts will benefit and look very strong contenders for the CC trophy this season. As a Lancs supporter I am hoping it will be us.

 

[nightprowler10]

Completely OT, but thats true in other areas as well. Guys with British accents get naturally higher grades during presentations in US business schools. Accents affects image, and if it reinforces your current beliefs, you can definitely benefit (or be hurt) from it (Same reason why a lot of southerners spend a lot of time getting rid of the Appalachian accent). True in cricket as in anything else.

For my senior design projects, I always look for someone with a European/Australian accent to group up with.

I agree. I sometimes think I may have benefited from such things getting to where I am today. Where I work, its predominantly whites in the higher paying jobs. I sometimes wonder if I got here quicker because of my skin color. Not saying I don't work my ass off, I do the job of two people. But I'm almost positive my skin color/accent may have played a part in my getting this job.

 

[wpdavid]

Name                Mat    I  NO  Runs   HS     Ave     SR 100 50   Ct St Team

JGE Benning          12   12   2   612  189*  61.20 118.37   1  5    3  - SURREY
OA Shah              16   16   4   732  125*  61.00  85.91   3  4   12  - MIDDX
CC Benham            11   10   1   487  158   54.11  93.29   2  3    4  - HANTS
MB Loye              16   16   2   751  127   53.64  92.71   2  5    1  - LANCS
MR Ramprakash        11   11   3   403  106*  50.37  85.74   1  2    3  - SURREY
ME Trescothick       10   10   0   485  158   48.50  91.16   2  1    3  - SOMERSET/ENG
CMW Read             14   10   2   356  135   44.50 106.26   1  2    9  - NOTTS/ENG
RC Irani             15   15   2   577  132*  44.38  81.26   2  3    4  - ESSEX
MJ Wood              18   17   1   690  116   43.12  88.91   1  6    2  - SOMERSET
RS Bopara            17   14   3   424  101*  38.54  82.65   1  4    6  - ESSEX
DL Maddy             16   16   1   565  167*  37.66  85.60   2  2   11  - LEICS
AD Brown             15   14   1   456  106   35.07 117.82   1  2    4  - SURREY

Thanks for the info. Benning's an interesting player, in that his List 'A' performances, if he keeps them up, will probably get him into England's oneday side before long, even though he rarely plays for Surrey's first XI in the CC. Whether enjoying himself against D2 attacks at the Oval really qualifies him for international cricket remains to be seen.

 

[Richard]

and then a couple of nights later another similar performance. People say Read can't bat but it just Fletcher's dislike of him that stops him playing how he can. I have watched him since 1999 and have seen a different Read to most people. That he is not picked for the MCC game means they are looking to go with Davies this summer, if not Nixon. At least Notts will benefit and look very strong contenders for the CC trophy this season. As a Lancs supporter I am hoping it will be us.

Not that many people who actually know something about something say Read can't bat in one-day cricket. The biggest problem, of course, was that there was all the usual "your best Test players must be your best ODI players" nonsense, so when Jones took Tests initially by storm, he just had to get into the ODI side despite being clearly an inferior batsman to Read in that form of the game. Then, of course, we've had Nixon and the reasons for that were a little strange but it's worked.

As regards the Test side, I hope and feel there is a certain possibility of neither Nixon nor Davies being picked (yet in Davies' case). James Foster is IMO much the best candidate.

 

[Tomm NCCC]

CMW Read 14 10 2 356 135 44.50 106.26 1 2 9 - NOTTS/ENG

And still not getting picked. So dissapointing, it really is. I feel sorry for England, as they are missing out on a geniune talent. OK, he ahs been out of form but in my book, he has had his confidence drained by this whole fiasco. Nixon has started playing well, and I would like to see him retain a place in ODI's, now he has proven himself. Its just such a shame Read has not had the decent chances Nixon and Jones had.

What is teh actual issue between Fletcher and Ready?

 

[open365]

CMW Read 14 10 2 356 135 44.50 106.26 1 2 9 - NOTTS/ENG

And still not getting picked. So dissapointing, it really is. I feel sorry for England, as they are missing out on a geniune talent. OK, he ahs been out of form but in my book, he has had his confidence drained by this whole fiasco. Nixon has started playing well, and I would like to see him retain a place in ODI's, now he has proven himself. Its just such a shame Read has not had the decent chances Nixon and Jones had.

What is teh actual issue between Fletcher and Ready?

In the CT Read had scores of 0,1,0 i think, i agree that Fletch isn't his biggest fan and the whole Jones/Read saga dented his chances because in a way gerraint's failing made the selectors dump them both, but still, he's not anyhtin special in my book, and i've seen him bat on numerous occasions.

Look at his stats, he's only got 6 list a 50s in 194 matches and averages 5 points less than Jones in ODIs(Jones who has 7 50s in 90 list a matches).

What evidence do you have for Read being the better ODI batsman out of the two?

 

[Richard]

Read has certainly had more chances than Nixon.

 

[open365]

Read has certainly had more chances than Nixon.

What has that got to do with anythin sorry? My last post didn't even mention Nixon

 

[Richard]

Was directed at Tom(m), sorry - might have done better to quote him, but given that your post replied to broadly the same subject I didn't bother.

Hoist by my own petard, I know.

 

[marc71178]

Its just such a shame Read has not had the decent chances Nixon and Jones had.

How on earth can you say that Nixon has had more chances than Read?

He's only just been selected, and he's grabbed that opportunity when he can.